Throttle controllers

[timbo2410]

Hi again, I'm gradually working my way through all my questions. So, recently went for a drive up and back on Lennards track here in SW W.A. Car went brilliantly apart from an oversensitive throttle control. Usually my driving has been on the beach where it's a steady resistance, but crawling up and down rough tracks was quite difficult due to how sensitive the throttle actually is. So, my question is, has anybody tried these throttle controllers (Kings, Windbooster, Thrust Monkey etc) .. not to give more performance or quicker acceleration, but to slow down the initial response when crawling offroad?

[Arron Harvey]

Hi again, I'm gradually working my way through all my questions. So, recently went for a drive up and back on Lennards track here in SW W.A. Car went brilliantly apart from an oversensitive throttle control. Usually my driving has been on the beach where it's a steady resistance, but crawling up and down rough tracks was quite difficult due to how sensitive the throttle actually is. So, my question is, has anybody tried these throttle controllers (Kings, Windbooster, Thrust Monkey etc) .. not to give more performance or quicker acceleration, but to slow down the initial response when crawling offroad?Found the same issue, especially with mods they have good throttle response.

Sent from my INE-LX2 using Tapatalk

[Bidja]

down rough tracks was quite difficult due to how sensitive the throttle actually is. So, my question is, has anybody tried these throttle controllers (Kings, Windbooster, Thrust Monkey etc) .. not to give more performance or quicker acceleration, but to slow down the initial response when crawling offroad?

Comments relevant to CRD only and based on my experience. CRD is drive by wire, with stock VNT solenoid controlling boost, I found the excessive throttle lag to be a real pain and all of a sudden would come on boost aggressively (non linear). The throttle control unit (kings) did help to make it less aggressive low down and improved driveability thru rough going (can be a bit sluggish though).

Best solution_install full manual boost control and use the needle valve to reduce spool when into rough stuff. Not into rolling my foot off pedal.

Was thinking of running two needle valves for off road use and switch between the two.

Moved on now and run max spool (Tillix with no needle valve). With ECU remap, currently trialing Tillix (for max boost) in conjunction with VNT Vac solenoid (for boost control) against Tillix only_Both being compared against each other and running both with and without throttle control unit.

[timbo2410]

The problem I have is certainly not lack of power .. the only mod I have so far is the 3inch exhaust. It's a problem at almost idle speeds where it's is too sharp a response. So it's nothing to do with boost control and I'm happy with all other speeds. All I want to achieve is the damping down at the initial throttle opening.

[Bidja]

Understand what U are concerned with. Yes the throttle control unit will help from low down (eg: off idle). It will slow up response (reduce spool up rate), in a similar manner to slowing up spool rate with opening up a needle valve.

With stock engine/3" exhaust, I used the throttle control unit with success and was able to drive tracks eg: lift up out of a deep ruts/washouts off low revs with improved control. Much less aggressive/surge like behavior.

[timbo2410]

Doesnt help that it's a manual .. maybe I should have gone auto

[Bidja]

Doesnt help that it's a manual .. maybe I should have gone auto

Only ever had manual boxes and prefer it that way (my preference).

On rough going you are not really bashing thru ratios. Try it out mate.

[timbo2410]

yeah i think I will .. thanks for the info :-)

[Bidja]

Check out the brands available, my kings is earlier variant that seems OK but others may be better choice_iDRIVE or those U mentioned.
Give us some feedback of outcome.

[timbo2410]

yeah it was the IDRIVE that seemed more adjustable in the lower ranges that caught my eye. The others seemed more focused on power which im not interested in at all. Will report back when I've got one fitted. I think that coupled with a dawes/needle valve will be great

[the evil twin]

FWIW the factory throttle controller on the Y62 (4 modes) is a pleasure to use and harking back to my CRD that thing was a PIA at times offroad over gnarly terrain so a '62 without one would be deadly... literally.

I reckon the CRD would def benefit from an after market throttle controller for 'low and slo' work esp if it is a vehicle that has been tuned up a tad.

The ZD30 issues IMHO are a function of that peaky torque band so the factory throttle is too sensitive down low.
Once a decent tune and/or Dawes/Tillix etc is done to get better low RPM response it magnifies the issue.

[timbo2410]

That's what I'm thinking. That was the only concern I had really. There were some rough, rocky sections that I could have just about idled over but idle wasnt enough. The next bit of pressure on the throttle would make an uncontrollable surge. If the throttle was damped down just a tad .. all would be well with the world :-)

[Bidja]

Thought I would post a recent dyno trace up that show the different torque / power behavior with and without using a throttle controller. Mine is far from stock these days with, ECU remap, running h/f turbo max boost 27psi, Tillix w/no needle valve (max spool) and 4" induction. You can see from the top graph how the torque and power come (from low revs) in a very controlled linear manner. Does not surge and is actually a pleasure to drive. This suits my setup best.

At same time, I conducted a trial (for comparison purposes) using Tillix (for max boost control ) and the stock VNT Vac Solenoid (in lieu of needle valve) for boost/spool control. This set up was tested with and without the throttle control module and I also observed with this, an improved linear response from low down using the throttle controller. This also worked well with my setup but using only Tillix and throttle controller, provided for greater low down torque which suits my setup (larger turbine to spin up).

Would be worth trying this configuration out with stock ECU/turbo when you decide to introduce manual boost control.
Same as your current setup (VNT vac sol) but incorporating Tillix to control max boost (prevent boost spikes) and use the throttle controller. Some folk are trialing this setup with remapped ECUs but see no reasons why a benefit would not be realized using the stock ECU.
Stock turbo has an advantage that it can spin up faster from low revs(lower mass exhaust wheel).

[timbo2410]

very interesting. I have had instances where the ecu has cut in with (what must be) an overboost situation. I read on the Patrol reference document how to check if you have the issue. According to that I do. I still havent had the confidence to install the dawes/needle valve yet but that should sort out the boost spikes. It will also give more boost at the lower end of the throttle which is good as long as it's controllable (which the idrive should then control) .. so yeah .. its a step by step process and I am getting there slowly

[Bidja]

You don't have to do a lot of mods to achieve good driveability. What engine do you have and mods state? What gauges do you have, eg: boost. EGT and scan tool (manage/record trouble codes)?

[timbo2410]

All that has been done so far is a 3 inch exhaust and a 2 inch lift. I have the EGT and boost gauges fitted. Thats the 3L common rail engine.

[Woof]

Had the same issue years ago, I just put a car washing foam thingy under the accelerator pedal to give some resistance

[Bidja]

With 3" exhaust and using stock VNT vac solenoid to control boost you will get more boost spike than with a stock exhaust. Tillix or Dawes will control max boost (eg:nom 16psi). You need to control max boost with or without the throttle controller.

Suggest U control max boost first.
I have a Dawes valve, a boost take off fitting for under MAP sensor and EDS scan tool (for clearing fault codes), I can help you out with these(save $$$s). Where are you located. No pressure mate. Suggest try running say Dawes/Tillix with VNT vac solenoid(no needle valve). Some will object against this setup but if it works with stock ECU would be worthwhile (very linear spool).

Throttle controller adjusts the signal to the ECU from the Throttle Position Sensor and does remove significant throttle lag caused by drive by wire..

Good that you have an EGT and boost gauge installed. Let us know some readings that you get different situations:
Max Boost you have noted with fast acceleration with load on eng?
Boost and EGT cruise on hwy slight load @100kph?
EGTs hauling up hill (eng loaded up?
Manual or auto?

Attached is my comparo dyno result_Tillix with VNT vac Solenoid(no needle valve) with and without throttle controller.

[timbo2410]

I've got the 2013 GU8, manual. The max I have seen boost at is 11 psi. At 110 kph she sits on around 7 to 8 psi even going up reasonable hills. With extreme + long hills (in 5th gear on cruise control at 110 kph), she may get up to 10 psi.
EGT sits around 240 to 280 around town and up to about 80 kph. At 110 kph it's around 320 to 380. On extreme + long hills (again 5th gear on cruise control at 110 kph) I have seen it at 520.
I had a dyno test done before Christmas and gauges are accurate and performance was higher than stock car. I cannot for the life of me find the results. I might call the dyno centre and ask if they still have them on record.
I live in Bunbury West Australia. Thanks for the offer to help out, but I think you might be a bit far away :-)

[Bidja]

Your EGTs look good but the max boost @11 psi is way too low. You need to get a scan tool onto it and see if you have not a limp fault. Max boost should be up around 15-16psi (without limp) and would expect to see higher boost spikes or bounce with stock boost control with the 3" exhaust fitted (possible cause of limp).

Try disconnecting your battery over night, may force the ECU to reset. Might be worth checking you vacuum hoses, for damage to VNT vac solenoid and to the actuator on turbo, and also your boost hoses and connection/clamps from turbo to intercooler (hot side) and from intercooler to inlet manifold(cold side). Not sure how much you understand?

Good if you could get onto the dyno result, especially ask if they can provide Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) and Manifold Pressure (psi) data along with the power and torque result.

Can talk you thru install of tillix/dawes and maybe retain the VNT vac solenoid to start with and replace the 3mm vac hoses if looking suss(pretty cheap to buy). To help you out could would post over dawes, boost take off adapter and some fittings plus the EDS scan tool ($100+post) maybe all up less than $120. Check new prices.

Question: What does your intercooler look like, any oil smear (leaking) especially where tanks join the core.

[timbo2410]

had all pipes and tubes checked at the dyno (full diagnostic). Intercooler clean as a whistle .. had a catch can fitted as soon as I got the car and i check the filter every week or so when i check oil levels .. all clean and i mean nothing at all. All I know is, during the Dyno the performance was higher than stock but that was after the 3 inch exhaust was fitted. The car had only done 54000 when I bought it back in November last year. Engine diagnostics were check at last service (about a month ago) and their were no faults in the system. MAF sensor was also cleaned as well along with a new fuel filter. Runs like a sewing machine. Plus surprisingly good acceleration from say 90 to 130 ..

[timbo2410]

The vacuum off-takes I just haven't bought yet but they are cheap as chips from any pneumatic centre.

[Bidja]

Great you have catch can and sounds like you are keeping maintenance up to it. Yes they do run well, must say though always looking for more torque low down but is the way it is.
A couple of years ago when I did 3" exhaust, manual boost control, full NADS, stock turbo / ECU she was a good run, just different these days.

[Touses]

Had the same issue years ago, I just put a car washing foam thingy under the accelerator pedal to give some resistance

Old school thinking for the win. I'm with ya brother!!

[Bidja]

Yeah foam a good fix for right foot jumping rough going but CRD do suffer from excessive throttle lag resulting from drive by wire in lieu steel woven cable.

[bazzaboy]

I've run an IDRIVE for a few years now on my 2014 Y61. Works well, and you can substantially reduce the throttle response for off-road use.

[timbo2410]

Thats definetly what I want to hear .. I dont have an issue with the patrols power in the higher rev range but it's too touchy at just above idle speeds. I think if/when I can afford to stick 33's on her it will help slightly but it's the control that is important at the lower speeds. Yes the idrive is certainly on the wish list .. hmmm the wish list has grown .. I have to start a second page arrrggghhhh

[timbo2410]

Just a quick note to all. Got the Idrive today and chucked it on .. what a difference .. E5 and all the embarrassing kangaroo hops around carparks are gone .. havent tried many other settings yet but straight away she's fully controllable at the lowest speeds from idle .. very happy ..

[Stephen Meagher]

Hi guys, this may have been done but I'm new so bare with me.
Have a GQ RB30 non turbo in QLD but live in Melbourne with my beloved GU 2012. Have had it remapped by a reputable company in Dandenong but for the money I paid I'm not real impressed. Looking into adding a throttle controller but heard some horror stories. I have a stock exhaust, 2" lift, staying with 33s. When remapped was told I would notice the difference in towing. Don't really tow but did on the Geelong bypass a substantial load but not that heavy and lost a fair bit of momentum. Strike! Still have turbo lag, Strike! Cost me best part of $1400, Strike!
I've been googling a lot and my mechanic hates throttle controllers.
Can someone give me some light?!
Setting this girl up for the long haul witha lot of touring in mind. I want her to go the distance.

Looking forward to your responses.
Steve.

[MudRunnerTD]

Hi guys, this may have been done but I'm new so bare with me.
Have a GQ RB30 non turbo in QLD but live in Melbourne with my beloved GU 2012. Have had it remapped by a reputable company in Dandenong but for the money I paid I'm not real impressed. Looking into adding a throttle controller but heard some horror stories. I have a stock exhaust, 2" lift, staying with 33s. When remapped was told I would notice the difference in towing. Don't really tow but did on the Geelong bypass a substantial load but not that heavy and lost a fair bit of momentum. Strike! Still have turbo lag, Strike! Cost me best part of $1400, Strike!
I've been googling a lot and my mechanic hates throttle controllers.
Can someone give me some light?!
Setting this girl up for the long haul witha lot of touring in mind. I want her to go the distance.

Looking forward to your responses.
Steve.

Hi Steve,

My understanding is a throttle controller really works best on s Drive by Wire throttle rather than a cable actuated throttle.

I would point you at something like a UniChip as a power upgrade. What did you get for $1400? Surely that in x lures dome bolt ons or Chip?