Welding gas bottles

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

Can you give me some advice regarding argon & co2 gas bottles?
It is for TIG and MIG, and sizes I'm thinking about atm are either D or E sizes.
I think size C is too small and may run out quickly depending on the hobby activity.

I am not sure whether the renting bottles is a viable option for a hobby welder like myself(unless I can get a good deal on rent).
Typical rent is about $30 a month afaik, so can get expensive when I have a full bottle and don't get it used up much and go for a year or two or more.

What/where should I go for the best deal? Any advice would be great.
I'm ok with travelling a bit far to get a good deal.

I'm in Melbourne Outer East.

I'm ok with renting if the deal is not a rip off.

Thanx in advance for any advice, tips etc.


P.S. Is there a way that i can get away with a single bottle for both MIG and TIG?
I mean is it possible to use argon on MIG? Or does it has to be CO2/argon mix?
For MIG, I'm looking at mild steel welding at this stage. Nothing else.

[GQtdauto]

You can get away with one gas only such as argon , if your only using occasionally I'd go to Bunnings or similar and buy outright .

[dom14]

You can get away with one gas only such as argon , if your only using occasionally I'd go to Bunnings or similar and buy outright .

Yeah, I checked with Bunnings. Their D size bottle refill is $100 as oppose to Gasweld Dandenong where the price is $70.
But, Bunnings $200 for the bottle is a deposit which you get back when return it.
I'm not sure the $250 Gasweld charge for the same size bottle is a deposit or I get to own it whether I like it or not.
I need to check it with Gasweld, but they are closed now & won't open till Monday.
I guess I'm gonna have to wait to find out. But, I think it's bottle buy, not a deposit.

[dom14]

http://www.gasweld.com.au/speed-gas-gas-kit-argon-d-size-includes-bottle-argon-gas-argon-d-kit

https://www.bunnings.com.au/coregas-size-d-trade-n-go-gas-argon-gas_p5910384

[dom14]

You can get away with one gas only such as argon , if your only using occasionally I'd go to Bunnings or similar and buy outright .

It's to finish off the ugly looking stick welding on the trailer cage I did.
From distance it looks pretty aesthetic 'cos of the the shape I came up with,
but from close-up it looks pretty below amateur. :)
Besides, as you mentioned, I need to do those weld tacks again to improve the overall strength.
I wish you live close-by. :)

[dom14]

You can get away with one gas only such as argon , if your only using occasionally I'd go to Bunnings or similar and buy outright .

It's to finish off the ugly looking stick welding on the trailer cage I did.
From distance it looks pretty aesthetic 'cos of the the shape I came up with,
but from close-up it looks pretty below amateur. :)
Besides, as you mentioned, I need to do those weld tacks again to improve the overall strength.
I wish you live close-by. :)

GQtdauto, any chance you can give me a rough idea how long a D size argon bottle would last mate?
I mean when it come to making a typical 8 x 5 cage trailer?
I'm referring to MIG welding, of course.

[GQtdauto]

That's the way mate there's heaps of company's and just as many prices to get your head around , gasweld were among the first to offer this system along with Linde , I changed the TAFE college from BOC to Linde and saved the TAFE a fortune in rental .
The refills were dearer but one large gas bottle of Co2 we had for 13 years and from memory our special rental rate at that time was $113 per annum but the gas was worth about $20 again a special Govt price .

[dom14]

That's the way mate there's heaps of company's and just as many prices to get your head around , gasweld were among the first to offer this system along with Linde , I changed the TAFE college from BOC to Linde and saved the TAFE a fortune in rental .
The refills were dearer but one large gas bottle of Co2 we had for 13 years and from memory our special rental rate at that time was $113 per annum but the gas was worth about $20 again a special Govt price .

Gasless MIG unit is an absolute PITA to use mate. I tend to think they are not good(or at least the Ozito one that I've got).
Weld tacks don't tend to be particularly weak, but they tend to form as chunks. It has high/low setting and 1-10 feed line speed setting.
I don't seem to be able to get good looking weld tacks by playing with those settings. Or there is still a possibility that I'm crappy at it. :)

[GQtdauto]

It's to finish off the ugly looking stick welding on the trailer cage I did.
From distance it looks pretty aesthetic 'cos of the the shape I came up with,
but from close-up it looks pretty below amateur. :)
Besides, as you mentioned, I need to do those weld tacks again to improve the overall strength.
I wish you live close-by. :)

GQtdauto, any chance you can give me a rough idea how long a D size argon bottle would last mate?
I mean when it come to making a typical 8 x 5 cage trailer?
I'm referring to MIG welding, of course.

You will use around 11 litres per minute depending on where you're welding and how windy it is but just as a rough guide go 11 litres , how long a bottle lasts if you can work out litres in a bottle and divide by 11 you get a guesstimate.

[GQtdauto]

Gasless MIG unit is an absolute PITA to use mate. I tend to think they are not good(or at least the Ozito one that I've got).
Weld tacks don't particularly weak, but they tend to form as chunks. It has high/low setting and 1-10 feed line speed setting.
I don't seem to be able to get good looking weld tacks by playing with those settings. Or there is still a possibility that I'm crappy at it. :)

Believe it or not but gasless mig actually works so much better using Co2 gas , that's why we had the bottle at TAFE but only used it as a demonstration , students never actually used it they used Argo shield .

[dom14]

Believe it or not but gasless mig actually works so much better using Co2 gas , that's why we had the bottle at TAFE but only used it as a demonstration , students never actually used it they used Argo shield .

There was a way to get hold of CO2 dirt cheap from soft drink bottle plants.
I'm not sure whether it's still a possibility.

[GQtdauto]

You'll be amazed at the difference .

[dom14]

You'll be amazed at the difference .

You mean the difference between gasless and gas MIG?

[GQtdauto]

Difference between gasless wire on its own and gasless wire with Co2 .

[dom14]

Difference between gasless wire on its own and gasless wire with Co2 .

I've gota a find a way to source alternative cheaper ways to get hold of some CO2 canisters. :)

[GQtdauto]

Also worth considering because you're a cheap bugger like me , see if you can get some helium , like what you use in party balloons , no idea how it would work in a mig but it was the first gas they used in Tig welding when it was invented many moons ago .
It is possible to use Co2 in a Tig for low carbon steel but Co2 is reactive so you will burn out your tungsten electrode in quick order .
When mig welding with flux cored wire and using Co2 the above is not an issue because your continually feeding the wire through and consuming it .

[dom14]

Also worth considering because you're a cheap bugger like me , see if you can get some helium , like what you use in party balloons , no idea how it would work in a mig but it was the first gas they used in Tig welding when it was invented many moons ago .
It is possible to use Co2 in a Tig for low carbon steel but Co2 is reactive so you will burn out your tungsten electrode in quick order .
When mig welding with flux cored wire and using Co2 the above is not an issue because your continually feeding the wire through and consuming it .

I most certainly can get helium but won't be any cheaper though. :)
Party suppliers have it but too dear to make it useful on MIG or TIG.
Argon is a by-product of some industrial process according to what I've heard and they are making a super fortune from it.

As a cheap bugger I beat you to it, 'cos I just built a 'massive' cage out of scrap. :D, but I made it look cool, except the weld tacks which looks like I've threwn up curries on it after having too much booze. ;), but that's the 'best' I could do with a stick welder and cheap electrodes. :D

I'm looking at all different types of welding as a long term serious hobby, so I gota source cheaparse ways to source the consumables, particularly the shielding gas. :)

My real aim is to be a damn good AC TIG welder, but so far it's only talk as I haven't got all the gear ready yet. :rolleyes:

I gave up on the gasless MIG welder and was planning to turn it into a sheet metal cutter by attaching a gas hose to the nozzle from the compressor. Now, I won't do as it would be a good backup MIG welder if I learn to use it with a bit of parallel thinking, following your tips.

[billyj]

biggest problem you will have is you need different gas mixes for different metals and processes

is argon/co2 mix to mig steel, straight argon to mig aluminium or tig steel and from memory its an argon/helium mix for tig aluminium

[GQtdauto]

biggest problem you will have is you need different gas mixes for different metals and processes

is argon/co2 mix to mig steel, straight argon to mig aluminium or tig steel and from memory its an argon/helium mix for tig aluminium

You can use argon for pretty much everything Tig but generally the mixes are formulated to tweak the welding performance
As in the case of using an Argon /helium mix for aluminium gives a broader flatter weld profile and argon / Co2 gets a bit better bite on low carbon steel .
From what I've read and experienced these properties are more desirable in mig welding because you have more control when Tig welding .
Same as using the Ceriated tungsten electrodes in Tig , you can use the one type for pretty much all types of metal your likely to weld you only have to change the way you prepare the end of the electrode .

[paulyg]

Check Total tools, they also sell the gas bottles

[dom14]

biggest problem you will have is you need different gas mixes for different metals and processes

is argon/co2 mix to mig steel, straight argon to mig aluminium or tig steel and from memory its an argon/helium mix for tig aluminium

I might be wrong, but I don't think they use helium on TIG gas mix they sell. I think it's pure argon 'cos it's cheaper for them.
I think argon/helium mixture would cost a fair bit more, or probably better to get a helium bottle and mix your own gas mixture using regulators.

[dom14]

Check Total tools, they also sell the gas bottles

Thanx. I completely forgot about them. They are not too far from here.

[dom14]

Check Total tools, they also sell the gas bottles

It appears Bunnings deal is bit better than them price wise($50 saving) & Bunnings take the bottle back as it is a deposit for the bottle.
We don't have to buy the bottle. But, Bunnings only does upto D size.

https://www.totaltools.com.au/welding/welding-consumables/welding-gas?0q0f7

[GQtdauto]

I might be wrong, but I don't think they use helium on TIG gas mix they sell. I think it's pure argon 'cos it's cheaper for them.
I think argon/helium mixture would cost a fair bit more, or probably better to get a helium bottle and mix your own gas mixture using regulators.

There is an argon / helium mix Dom but for the amount and type of work you're going to do with a Tig just go argon or if you can get it cheap enough try party balloon gas (helium) .

[dom14]

There is an argon / helium mix Dom but for the amount and type of work you're going to do with a Tig just go argon or if you can get it cheap enough try party balloon gas (helium) .

Yeah, I dropped into the local Chinese variety store where they sell Helium Balloons and they have the big E size bottle there.
The lady couldn't understand anything I say & I might have to learn to speak Mandarin first. :)
I need to drop into see when the owner's there.