Hydraulic lifters Stuck? Bad?

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

I'm wandering whether the hydraulic lifters stuck like this(not moving at all) indicates they are bad beyond any use. Out of 12 lifters in this cylinder head(RB30 Nissan), only two moves. That's why I am not sure whether they are actually bad or may be in a stuck position due to some reason, but not necessarily bad??!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V_Vc0pNuXU&feature=youtu.be

I know if I blow a bit of compressed air into a lifter through the oil receiving hole, it get momentarily stuck.
But, I did no such thing with these lifters. They belong to the original old cylinder head that came with my RB30.
I have another cylinder head which goes onto the engine block today has only two stuck lifters like this.
My idea is to swap two from the old one, and funnily enough only two moving lifters that I can see on the old cylinder head. :)

Any of your opinions, explanations will be appreciated.

Thanx in advance.

Dom

P.S. The cylinder head, rockers, lifters, etc are pretty clean looking 'cos it runs on LPG all the time. So, I don't think it's carbon build up, but not all that sure. However water got into oil by blown head gasket, so I don't know whether the water-oil mixture can stuff up the lifters like this.

[dom14]

I pulled apart one of the stuck lifters and cleaned it with break cleaner, part by part and put back it back together.
It's moving(the bouncing action) fine now(full range of movement).
When I inject a bit of compressed air through the hole, it hardens & get stuck again, but gradually start to move again.

Any "hydraulic lifter specialists" out there that can decode that behaviour and tell me whether the lifters that behave like that are shot
or not??

Thanx

[dom14]

This is how much they cost. But, I prefer not to fix it if it ain't broken. :)

Nissan RB30 LIFTERS RB30T Skyline R31 VL holden commodore turbo | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-RB30-LIFTERS-RB30T-Skyline-R31-VL-holden-commodore-turbo-/121890336607?epid=0&hash=item1c613aef5f:g:ph8AAOSwezVWuovt)

[Winnie]

You're talking to yourself again Dom

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[dom14]

You're talking to yourself again Dom

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Pretty much.:D,
But, it's good. I'm documenting something here that may be useful to somebody someday. :)

[dom14]

These are the photos of the hydraulic lifter that I was(apparently) able to "revive" by cleaning with WD40 & high pressure air gun.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/IvHuy0WqoNBrR1bx2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/15jCDGWyV2yzW5XG2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ec9lmsEbcgJL8hed2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/p6EvP3Sxv8wZN0Kh2

[dom14]

I have come up with two or three theories to decide when they are shot.

1)When oil residue clogs up the internal oil passages(which can be corrected by tearing it apart and cleaning with WD40 & high pressure air gun, I believe)

2)The internal moving pistons(two of them) are worn and the gap between the bore and piston has increased to the point of leaking too much oil and reducing the hydraulic effect. - This is a scenario where they are shot for good

3)The spring at the bottom of it has lost it's gas and lost tension and has gone soft - I reckon it's not common. I think the spring lasts bit longer than we think. But, I'm not 100% sure as I don't have a brand new one to tear apart and assess the spring tension.

[dom14]

These are lifter rebuild videos. DIY stuff.
Basically, mechanically not much goes wrong with these hydraulic lifters unless they run dry or something.
Rebuilding them is pretty much a good clean up job.

I reckon my method of using compressed air with WD40 is better and quicker than any of the methods of these videos.

One thing is fairly certain in most situations of stuck valve lifters though. That is they can be rebuilt by spend less than five minutes on each lifter.

I'm going to pull each lifter out individually tomorrow and rebuild(clean) them one by one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXRP78lEXag


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mvr7peX7Ns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi3S17dzHCQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J8RS75k4ns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN7ExcCYg3E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpSuwEI0Q8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySf0r8GGMOY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgLIwYGya9Y

[dom14]

This thread explains the function of hydraulic lifters.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1736665-How-to-test-hydraulic-lifters

I quoted below passage from it where it answers my OP question about lifters being stuck hard.
Basically this says that the hard(stuck) lifters are good & the moving(squishy) ones are bad(means need cleaning to remove gunk from the check ball)

"let me sure I got it right, the ones I tested that have have the spring motion (squishy ones) are considered good? this is the end result I want to see on all of them when done cleaning?

One guy on this board bought some brand new lifters and saying they won't budge at all when new, that's why I'm so confused ..."


"The squishy lifters need attention. Good ones pump up with oil and become virtually solid. Squishy ones aren't completely filled with oil which means they aren't sealing properly. If you take one apart you'll see what's going on inside. Basically there's a one-way check valve (a little spring loaded ball bearing) that should let oil into the lifter but not let it out. If for some reason the check valve isn't able to close fully it allows oil to leak out and the lifter won't pump up. Usually it's just an accumulation of varnish or a piece of dirt preventing a full seal and cleaning will restore proper function."

[dom14]

Signs and Symptoms of a Bad Lifter Flat Tappet

https://itstillruns.com/signs-symptoms-bad-lifter-flat-tappet-10045359.html

[dom14]

Ok. This is what I have come up with so far on how to test whether a particular lifter is good or bad.

1)If the lifter is solid/stuck - Dismantle and clean all the parts of the lifter and put it back together. Dip in oil and pump the top plunger two three times. If the lifter is good then it should go solid with no squishy movement. If still squishy after pumping dipped in oil then it's bad.

2)If the lifter is squishy - Dip in oil and pump the top plunger two three times. If the lifter is good then it should go solid with no squishy movement. If still squishy after pumping dipped in oil then it's bad.

3)Also check the lifter crown to ensure it is slightly convex. If it's flat, then the lifter needs replacing.

[Tip12345]

mmm from memory the Isuzu ones go rock hard and don't bleed down when new . That was in the v6 ones . There was only a problem if the oil was not looked after . We used to pull them apart and clean them with thinners and wipe them with fine scotch bright .
assemble them with light oil like sewing machine oil . Some I even put in the ultra-sonic cleaner. for the day . they like nice clean and thin oil ! hope t5his helps

[dom14]

This is interesting and useful stuff.

Cam lobe wear and lifter crown wear need to be taken into account to assess whether they are good or bad. I've been learning how important these things are for the proper performance of the engine. I missed out on proper inspection of the camshaft lobes and particularly the lifter wear on the lifter crown. I'll have to do it soon. :)

I gathered below articles about cam lobe wear and the symptoms & diagnosis.

How To Check Flat-Tappet Lifter Crown, Lobe Taper, And Lifter Bores - Hot Rod Network (http://www.hotrod.com/articles/check-flat-tappet-lifter-crown-lobe-taper-lifter-bores/)

https://itstillruns.com/eliminate-engine-valve-noise-7625574.html

Guide to Camshaft Technology - Tech Article - Chevy High Performance Magazine (http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/148-0405-camshaft-terms-guide/)

cam wear,articles you need to read | Grumpys Performance Garage (http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/cam-wear-articles-you-need-to-read.282/)

1996 Bronco/F-Series (http://www.diesel-dave.com/vehic/manual/stj/stj30034.htm)

https://www.slideshare.net/rajat_jubilee/cams-29473456

https://archive.cnx.org/contents/8c675230-b9cd-43a9-8f27-39aa399fb8d9@1/cams

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=564488

154 9901 02 O+154 9901 Jeep Bumpstick Basics+cam Lobe And Lifter Diagram - Photo 30784513 - Choosing The Best Cam For Your Jeep (http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/154-9901-choosing-the-best-cam-for-your-jeep/photo-02.html)

And below pictures demonstrate cam lobe/hydraulic lifter issues.

It is NOT my camshaft, but random pictures I pasted from google.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/10/88.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/10/89.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/10/90.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/10/91.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/10/1.html

[billyj]

what ever you do dom. NEVER PUT A USED LIFTER ON A DIFFERENT CAM LOBE. unless the new lifter was run in to the particular lobe never ever swap them around or you will destroy the cam lobe, flat tappet lifters will surface harden as they run in agains a particular cam lobe swapping the lobe a lifter runs on is a sure fire way to wape a lobe off the cam.

http://www.cranecams.com.au/pdfs/Reasons%20&%20Causes%20for%20Cam%20Failure.pdf


and you must go through a break in procedure when fitting new lifters even on a used cam

http://www.cranecams.com.au/pdfs/CAM%20RUN%20IN%20PROCEDURE.pdf




the only lifters that can be swapped around etc are roller lifters

[dom14]

what ever you do dom. NEVER PUT A USED LIFTER ON A DIFFERENT CAM LOBE. unless the new lifter was run in to the particular lobe never ever swap them around or you will destroy the cam lobe, flat tappet lifters will surface harden as they run in agains a particular cam lobe swapping the lobe a lifter runs on is a sure fire way to wape a lobe off the cam.

http://www.cranecams.com.au/pdfs/Reasons%20&%20Causes%20for%20Cam%20Failure.pdf


and you must go through a break in procedure when fitting new lifters even on a used cam

http://www.cranecams.com.au/pdfs/CAM%20RUN%20IN%20PROCEDURE.pdf




the only lifters that can be swapped around etc are roller lifters


Cool, thanx mate. I didn't swap them. I had a vague memory Haynes manual advising not to do that as well.
I learnt a fair bit about hydraulic lifters & cams in one day. :D
I was contemplating on doing something dodgy like turning the lifter head into a convex one by grinding and polishing, but I won't. ;)

I bumped into a bastard of a problem today when I realize I couldn't get the cam gear in with the timing belt attached.
The extra thickness from the better cylinder head & new gasket made it impossible.
I have to pull the timing cover, fan, shroud, harmonic balancer etc to access the damn timing belt tensioner to loosen it up a bit
to get the cam gear into the slot. What a bummer. It ate my whole evening.:1087:

[dom14]

I have a bit of hydraulic lifter noise from the front of the engine.

I gathered below links that sort of explains hydraulic lifter noise & how to locate & diagnose them while they are fitted to the car.


https://itstillruns.com/causes-lifters-engine-bad-12216682.html

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how-do-i-check-bad-lifter-136820.html

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/b5-garage/268127-how-do-i-find-valve-lifter-bad.html

[Throbbinhood]

Thanks Dom. Gravedig but I think this may be my problem. Hope you are well mate, has been a long time.

[mudnut]

Unfortunately, Dom will probably not be back. It was sad to watch the turn of events that caused him to leave.