All Things Chev

[poindexter]

this image shows simplistic airflow, underbody is considered low pressure

70810

[PeeBee]

this image shows simplistic airflow, underbody is considered low pressure

70810

Wish I had this image before I blabbed on for 1000 words last night! So negative below engine and on 2/3 of bonnet.

[rainsey]

Running lean will make things cooler in a diesel.

Lower twmp thermostats wont reduce your under bonnet temps. 2 extra cylinders pumping out heat will bring them up. I would be more inclined to be looking at reducing the radiant heat from the exhaust manifolds. This can be done in the form of coatings, wraps or heat shields.

Thanks for the feedback. I understand that the thermostats will not affect the under bonnet temps, but what they will do is cut in earlier and get the water in the block circulating earlier hopefully reducing my water temp from what it is currently reaching.

My Turbo has a cover and the exhaust is rapped all the way down so yep, this is accounted for.




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[PeeBee]

Oh. My other thought was in regards to the excessive heat in that hot air does rise. If this was the case it would exacerbate the whole under bonnet pressure issue .... i think..:)


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Heat in the form or radiant heat is not related to pressure and air flow, so as the low pressure zone pushes the air to the road, the radiant heat in the form of conducted heat, causes the metal components to rise in temp, heating the air locally - can only be local because air is a poor conductor, hence if you allow a vent path, vertically, the airflow will strip the latent heat from the surrounding area by erosion.

[PeeBee]

Guys, when sorting out the fuel flow issue on the aux tank tonight I saw first hand just much of a fuel flow is leaving the tank to feed the engine. My aux fuel tank was custom manufactured and its apparent that level dampening is not marvelous, because when the vehicle is idling, the fuel gauge needle is static, but increase revs to 2000-2500 and the fuel needle dances over in time to the demand. Its amazing how dramatic the flow pattern is. certainly having the hose , which is 8mm dia, choked off by maybe 50% had a dramatic impact. Something to watch for with older vehicles perhaps.

[Kimbo63]

G'day Rainsey, sorry no ones got back to you yet mate. Seems the only 6.5ers posting at the moment are Turbo&Intercooless NA's :-) Engine bay air pressures of big donks squeezed into smallish trucks has been one of my concerns for a while now. Finally about to install my NA reverse scoops wacky concept to increase theoretical flow through. I must admit the physics of top Chev/Trol mounted intercoolers with forward facing scoops has always confused me for fighting air pressure performance. Front mount IC is probably the go but again more hinderence to your already stressed radiator system. Kimbo mate, how does your beast run so perfectly as driven :-)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/4.jpg


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Hey mate just seen this have been busy working and no time to get on the net
I think my truck runs cool due to good air flow my front bar is very open and offers no restriction to air flow also I got rid of the flex radiator hoses that BD fit and used silicone hoses and Aly pipes

[jay see]

I haven't read much on this thread, so if it's been mentioned already apologzie.

Have played around with low/high pressures on the last 4by I had.
Vents in the lower part or the bonnet (like what a Subaru sti have) are something to consider. So is chocking up the rear of the bonnet (closert to the windscreen)

[MB]

I had choked up my old DX4.2TD bonnet years ago and to the best of my memory what NNB and Poindexter have kindly posted above makes sense now. It did seem to help at low speeds but that high pressure zone pictured above at the windscreen base must have been the issue at high speeds. Reckon I'll still give the cheapo Saas reverse scoops a go somewhere in the middle of the bonnet low pressure zone. My NA truck finally goes up to Mansfield later this week for a free flowing new Millweld bar with built in oil coolers far left and far right and I'll piss off the last flexy top radiator hose too thanks Kimbo :-)
Rainsey mate, in regards thermostats, I researched heavily the yank sites from posters in the snow and desert regions, consensus seemed to be the ACDelco 88DCelsius for best all year round. About $40Aud each from Autobarn-USA online.

[rainsey]

Rainsey mate, in regards thermostats, I researched heavily the yank sites from posters in the snow and desert regions, consensus seemed to be the ACDelco 88DCelsius for best all year round. About $40Aud each from Autobarn-USA online.

MB,

Thanks for the info. Re the thermostats, yes it appears the 88 degree units are what Greg from BD thinks is in my engine. Now not really having any knowledge of what I am saying.... Greg also stated that they do not fully open until around the 95 degree mark. Sooooo on that thinking he is sending me a lower temp high flows.

Watch this space. When I get them I'll see if they make any improvement.

Kindest Regards
Rainsey


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[MB]

Made a quick video for you mate that may be helpful.
https://vimeo.com/202574268
The Yanky 88's currently installed outperform the originally installed Aussie 82's by miles. I've done each cooling system mod slowly over stages and the best stability mod noticed to date was these thermos even throughout 35+ Vic heat this summer at times up our test hill.


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[MB]

Almost forgot, the Yanky 88's definitely open at 88 as I watch like an eagle the temp gauge. My thermo fans are currently set at around 1st @ 92 and 2nd around 99. Basically once they open at 88 now and I'm not hauling on flat ground the thermos aint kicking on especially over Vic winter days.

[MB]

Just found an interesting experiment from a Red Bull race car :-)
https://youtu.be/qOaUy-wHKkM

[PeeBee]

Interesting Mark, show an external neg pressure zone I am guessing, which should suck heat from the engine bay?

[PeeBee]

I had choked up my old DX4.2TD bonnet years ago and to the best of my memory what NNB and Poindexter have kindly posted above makes sense now. It did seem to help at low speeds but that high pressure zone pictured above at the windscreen base must have been the issue at high speeds. Reckon I'll still give the cheapo Saas reverse scoops a go somewhere in the middle of the bonnet low pressure zone. My NA truck finally goes up to Mansfield later this week for a free flowing new Millweld bar with built in oil coolers far left and far right and I'll piss off the last flexy top radiator hose too thanks Kimbo :-)
Rainsey mate, in regards thermostats, I researched heavily the yank sites from posters in the snow and desert regions, consensus seemed to be the ACDelco 88DCelsius for best all year round. About $40Aud each from Autobarn-USA online.

Mark, do you have a part number or is your description enough to ensure I get the right one? I have aleady purchased a range of spares from BD, including the thermostat, but won't hold back on getting something better.

[MB]

I'm hoping mate, although I do want to keep mine more central as to not drag the hot air past the batteries each side of the truck.

[MB]

I'll find the Autobarn link now mate, 5 mins

[MB]

http://catalog.autobarn.net/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=2001-GMC-Van--G1500--1/2--Ton--Savana-V8--395ci--6.5l--Diesel--Turbo--Vin--F-Belts/hoses/cooling&yearid=2001%40%402001&makeid=31%40%40GMC%40%40T&modelid=12519%40%40VAN%20G1500%201%2F2%20TON%20SAV ANA&engineid=24282%40%40V8-395ci%206.5L%20DIESEL%20TURBO%20Vin%20F%40%4024282&catid=2%40%40Belts%2FHoses%2FCooling&subcatid=35@@Thermostat%2C%20Housing%20%26%20Radia tor%20Cap&mode=PA

[PeeBee]

Hey mate just seen this have been busy working and no time to get on the net
I think my truck runs cool due to good air flow my front bar is very open and offers no restriction to air flow also I got rid of the flex radiator hoses that BD fit and used silicone hoses and Aly pipes

Kimbo, interested in getting a set of smooth bore silicone hoses also for my na chev. Where did you get yours and are they a straight hose in their relaxed state or pre moulded to the shape? I have removed my 9" driving lights from the grill and replaced them with light bars on BB and on roof rack, so max airflow also. As yet have not really had time to experience the issues with heat as only 800 klm on clock for new conversion, but working on it!

[MB]

ACDelco 103-103 .......190F=87.7777

[PeeBee]

ACDelco 103-103 .......190F=87.7777

You are very good man, thanks!

[PeeBee]

is this supposed to 131-103?

[MB]

You are very good man, thanks!
Sorry 131-103 :-(

[MB]

is this supposed to 131-103? Yep sorry, speaking of temperatures, my heads been running a fever of 39D for 4 days straight now, my bad !!

[PeeBee]

$220 shipping!!! might walk over and pick one up!

[MB]

No way :-( !! I did by memory get some sort of promo deal for new members over $100 bucks spend. Blokes in Bayswater I found locally never knew of the part but could supply me in 2 months at $100 AUD each ! Autobarn USA sent in about 3 weeks. Come to think of it, I think I rang them direct to discuss with their hotline. Used the word G'day a few times too :-)

[PeeBee]

No way :-( !! I did by memory get some sort of promo deal for new members over $100 bucks spend. Blokes in Bayswater I found locally never knew of the part but could supply me in 2 months at $100 AUD each ! Autobarn USA sent in about 3 weeks. Come to think of it, I think I rang them direct to discuss with their hotline. Used the word G'day a few times too :-)

OK, I do have a US post box in Florida so I might try that avenue.

[PeeBee]

Just found 2 on ebay, $21 US each and $22 shipping, so waiting to hear if they have 2 avail

[MB]

Good work, I like that mate :-) What we've experienced with online shopping algorithms is that even the best purchased programs default to single item ++++ calculations. Pretty sure that's why I rang late night and said G'day so they could manually overide their system.

[PeeBee]

Bought one at that price, waiting on request for a second. There is another vendor with 8 units avail, but shipping is still circa $60 USD, which is too high. I might go the US post box route.

[Kimbo63]

Kimbo, interested in getting a set of smooth bore silicone hoses also for my na chev. Where did you get yours and are they a straight hose in their relaxed state or pre moulded to the shape? I have removed my 9" driving lights from the grill and replaced them with light bars on BB and on roof rack, so max airflow also. As yet have not really had time to experience the issues with heat as only 800 klm on clock for new conversion, but working on it!
Hey mate sorry for the delay I sourced mine from here pre moulded and Aly pipe joiners will grap a photo later for you
http://www.siliconedirect.com.au/

[PeeBee]

Hey mate sorry for the delay I sourced mine from here pre moulded and Aly pipe joiners will grap a photo later for you
http://www.siliconedirect.com.au/

Kimbo, how did you get them 'pre-moulded'? By that I am assuming they were moulded with the bends/changes or directions?

Have you had the 4" Millweld snorkle since new or changed from a plastic unit, say 3" - keen to understand if you had any performance difference.

[Kimbo63]

Kimbo, how did you get them 'pre-moulded'? By that I am assuming they were moulded with the bends/changes or directions?

Have you had the 4" Millweld snorkle since new or changed from a plastic unit, say 3" - keen to understand if you had any performance difference.
I used 45 deg and stright hoses and pipe in between I have had the 4" snorkel from the start so can't comment on any performance gains

[rainsey]

this image shows simplistic airflow, underbody is considered low pressure

70810

An intersting site.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Undertrays-Spoilers-Bonnet-Vents-Part-1&A=113176

[MB]

It's a bit rough but one of the comp cars from Wandin 4x4 show this morning pictured.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/173.jpg


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[PeeBee]

It's a bit rough but one of the comp cars from Wandin 4x4 show this morning pictured.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/173.jpg


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Not Rough, simply functional, I like it, which is why I will be booking my patrol into a panel shop to get the set of gills mounted into the bonnet, because I would end up with something like the photo!

[Kimbo63]

Good little article here for you guys with overheating issues before you chop your cars up
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Undertrays-Spoilers-Bonnet-Vents-Part-1&A=113176

[Ropes]

Good little article here for you guys with overheating issues before you chop your cars up
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Undertrays-Spoilers-Bonnet-Vents-Part-1&A=113176
Cheers mate, now my head hurts [emoji14]

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[rainsey]

Good little article here for you guys with overheating issues before you chop your cars up
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Undertrays-Spoilers-Bonnet-Vents-Part-1&A=113176

Hmmm... sure I posted the same URL about 3 posts back


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[Kimbo63]

Hmmm... sure I posted the same URL about 3 posts back


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Oops Missed that one sorry mate

[rainsey]

Oops Missed that one sorry mate

Its actually a good article, one of 3. I have just ordered a differential magnahelic of flea bay so when it rolls up and when I figure out how to use it I'll post some results. I felt a little embarrassed by driving around town with half a ball of wool sticky taped to my bonnet.

Stay tuned

[rainsey]

Crap, had to replace my harmonic balancer as it had a groove in it where the oil seal sat, hence my oil leak I was posting about some time back.

So the old harmonic balancer is on the work bench, I rock the bench and what happens,,, the friggin HB slides off the bench and lands on my foot from a tad over half a metre ....

I think I now have 3 broken toes in my right foot.... my engine is trying to kill me .... Christ I'm in pain!!!


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[MB]

Ouch, that would friggin hurt, take it easy Rainsey mate!

[rainsey]

Ouch, that would friggin hurt, take it easy Rainsey mate!

Ha ha, naw, I'm just being a pussy. Turns out actually broke 1 toe and one very bruised. My PPE thongs I was wearing obviously protected my foot more than I thought!


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[MB]

Quick update gents on oil cooling mods progress. Mill from Millweld is kindly putting the custom bar work and storing the beast until I can sort out getting the twin bullbar coolers to him. Turns out that all off the shelf coolers are not suitably sized and Fluid Dynamics need nearly $800 smackers a piece for custom tricky builds. Serck have just recently released a new model wacky size needed with inlet/outlet on the long end required so looking like going down this path:
http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/271348588170?_mwBanner=1
Bursons Lilydale are kindly helping out bringing in the final hopeful piece of the puzzle and we should be good to go build again soon :-)
https://derale.com/products/fluid-coolers/thermostats-1/fluid-control-thermostats/14-high-output-single-rad-pusher-pullerfan-with-standard-mount-kit-detail
Will keep you posted as best I can hopefully will see my hot idle psi back near a healthy 10psi one day soon :-)



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[PeeBee]

Quick update gents on oil cooling mods progress. Mill from Millweld is kindly putting the custom bar work and storing the beast until I can sort out getting the twin bullbar coolers to him. Turns out that all off the shelf coolers are not suitably sized and Fluid Dynamics need nearly $800 smackers a piece for custom tricky builds. Serck have just recently released a new model wacky size needed with inlet/outlet on the long end required so looking like going down this path:
http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/271348588170?_mwBanner=1
Bursons Lilydale are kindly helping out bringing in the final hopeful piece of the puzzle and we should be good to go build again soon :-)
https://derale.com/products/fluid-coolers/thermostats-1/fluid-control-thermostats/14-high-output-single-rad-pusher-pullerfan-with-standard-mount-kit-detail
Will keep you posted as best I can hopefully will see my hot idle psi back near a healthy 10psi one day soon :-)



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Mark, is your pressure too high or too low at idle when hot? Mine sits around 150kpa or 22psi and 350kpa at 2000rpm. Engine has done a whopping 800klm though.

[MB]

Todd kindly put a link on here years ago to the US Military download that I'm slowly working my way through like a nuffy.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/181.jpg
Cold idle I've always experienced minimum 40psi and cold 2,000rpm up to near 60psi. Hot and flogging the old girl I've seen as low as 2.5psi hot scary idle. Hot water I think it's turning to :-(


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[PeeBee]

Sounds like the oil is the wrong grade, as pressure is 'only system resistance', so if its as thin as water then it isn't going to generate much back pressure I would surmise. Do you know what your oil temp is - bearing in mind this is a critical part of the equation. If its well above the specs above then I can see the benefit of cooling it like you are doing, but if its within spec, temp wise, could it be the oil? Sounds like you have a very accurate oil pressure gauge as well - what brand?

[MB]

I bloody hope it's not the wrong grade oil, GTS owners truck I bought complete and told me never to change from this:
http://www.valvoline.com.au/explore-our-products/all-products/engine-oil/heavy-duty-diesel/valvoline-super-diesel-engine-oil



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[PeeBee]

I bloody hope it's not the wrong grade oil, GTS owners truck I bought complete and told me never to change from this:
http://www.valvoline.com.au/explore-our-products/all-products/engine-oil/heavy-duty-diesel/valvoline-super-diesel-engine-oil



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Funny thats exactly what I am running - swapped over from Mobil. That oil must be stinking hot. I am just wondering if a 50 or 60 grade, like a semi synthetic or the like, 10W-60 for example might also help with hot temp viscosity. You maintain the low temp characteristics and increase the top end. Worth enquiring, but first thing any oil company will ask is, 'whats the temp range'. However if your super coolers do their job, then alls well. I guess one thing at a time is best practice. I am eagerly waiting the outcome!!!!! I know a couple of the guys in FNQ have upgraded their oil coolers to a second unit on the chassis rails, but speaking with BD their applications were heavy towing and constant high temps - maybe not the variables yours will see, which makes that pressure stabilising valve a good choice i reckon.

[PeeBee]

I have two more temperature sensors spare and capacity on the controller, and i am totally going to be monitoring oil temp as best i can based on what you are going thru.

[MB]

Now I can relax thanks Phil, you know what I mean....Valvoline.....:-) Speaking of variables, we're both Southerners needing to run our trucks between winter snow and then 40+ summers hauling trailers. What intrigues me on another cooling/water aspect is that some companies are suggesting 82D water thermostats when the US military operating range is 88D ++ :-)

[PeeBee]

Now I can relax thanks Phil, you know what I mean....Valvoline.....:-) Speaking of variables, we're both Southerners needing to run our trucks between winter snow and then 40+ summers hauling trailers. What intrigues me on another cooling/water aspect is that some companies are suggesting 82D water thermostats when the US military operating range is 88D ++ :-)

I don't know enough about what difference 6 degrees would make, suspect 2 tents of stuff all after the valve opens, and as long as the flow remains the same, would think the radiator should take care of the rest. I get about 12 - 15 deg C drop across the radiator, so the 6 deg C is accounted for.

[peterc99]

On a recent trip towing 1T trailer up a long incline with ambient temps around 38deg my Redarc gauge with the sensor in the top radiator hose climbed to 120deg - red flashing and alarm sounding - slowed down to allow it cool, temps dropped back to 90deg after a few minutes. Checked coolant level in reservoir and radiator after cooling down at end of trip - all normal. May have to upgrade to Duramax viscous fan clutch.

[GQtdauto]

Quick question , just getting fuel and next bowser was a brand new Holden Colorado with "Duramax" logo on the front guard , never knew they had the option , 500 newton meters he said , no trouble pulling the van and said it's the most powerful 4by he's ever driven .
Question is are they any good .

[MB]

I don't know enough about what difference 6 degrees would make, suspect 2 tents of stuff all after the valve opens, and as long as the flow remains the same, would think the radiator should take care of the rest. I get about 12 - 15 deg C drop across the radiator, so the 6 deg C is accounted for.
Cheers Phil, just meant that the US military apparently want their 6.5s running at a minimum of 88D op temp and others are suggesting lower thermostats. The yank forum sites I was researching earlier on did seem to consensus GM owned 88D thermostats also.

[nissannewby]

They have branded the new engines duramax. Duramaz normally means the engine has been made by isuzu. They are only a 2.8 four pot.

[MB]

On a recent trip towing 1T trailer up a long incline with ambient temps around 38deg my Redarc gauge with the sensor in the top radiator hose climbed to 120deg - red flashing and alarm sounding - slowed down to allow it cool, temps dropped back to 90deg after a few minutes. Checked coolant level in reservoir and radiator after cooling down at end of trip - all normal. May have to upgrade to Duramax viscous fan clutch.
Cheers Peter, a big donk Duramax fan sounds great for blokes running belt driven. Any links or sites you've seen mate that show their cfm throughout rpm range? Cheers Mark

[MB]

They have branded the new engines duramax. Duramaz normally means the engine has been made by isuzu. They are only a 2.8 four pot.
Google reckons out of Thailand for Aus too, not sure if that matters or not?

[Robo]

Has anyone come across the autobox conversion behind the td42 tb48 and ls1 using the gen Nissan gear box RE5R05A.
Its a 5 speed trip tonic.

I believe they are oem box in the titan behind a V8 in the U/States.
Std equipment in GT35 skyline, behind 3.5 V6.
I'm also guessing possibly in Elgrand with the same V6 as above skyline.
The Elgrand also came out 4x4 so very possible this is a easy conversion.

My question is this=== are they really any good, Ratios etc
Any good in a patrol behind the LS1 etc ??.

FYI---Wholesale autos are doing this box as an option.

[GQtdauto]

Thanks MB and nissanewby, will double check the specs 2.8 ltr! Don't care much for small donks putting out big HP but then again the wife's 3ltr hand grenade 2002 GU is faster than my GQ .

[MB]

Has anyone come across the autobox conversion behind the td42 tb48 and ls1 using the gen Nissan gear box RE5R05A. Its a 5 speed trip tonic. I believe they are oem box in the titan behind a V8 in the U/States. Std equipment in GT35 skyline, behind 3.5 V6. I'm also guessing possibly in Elgrand with the same V6 as above skyline. My question is this=== are they really any good, Ratios etc Any good in a patrol behind the LS1 etc ??. FYI---Wholesale autos are doing this box as an option. I personally have no idea Robo mate but it sounds tops! The Nissan 5.6 petrol beast and its tranny kept together would make one hell of a transplant though :-) !

[Robo]

I personally have no idea Robo mate but it sounds tops! The Nissan 5.6 petrol beast and its tranny kept together would make one hell of a transplant though :-) !

RE5R05A is not the oem for the LS engine ( not that I know of any ways) it's a nissan gen oem tranny out of other nissan skyline & titan cars, but can be mated up to tb td ls engines via a kit.

[PeeBee]

Cheers Phil, just meant that the US military apparently want their 6.5s running at a minimum of 88D op temp and others are suggesting lower thermostats. The yank forum sites I was researching earlier on did seem to consensus GM owned 88D thermostats also.

MB, I checked the specs on the thermostat i have from BD as a spare and its a 82degC unit. Sorry, this has been bugging me! And it matches the unit i got on ebay, which was an AC DELCO. BD stock tridon, part number TT2000-180 Hi Flow

[MB]

G'day Phil, I'm by no means an expert on these donks sorry mate, just learning my way through them too to make mine hopefully bulletproof. Here is the page photo again from the US military full maintenance download that was posted years ago here.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/194.jpg
ACDelco do make several different TS ranges but the yank forums seemed to recommend the 131-103 88Ds which is what I received.


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[MB]

Oil coolers turned up today. Can't complain about the service from the ebay mob being the only stockists in the country I could find. Ordered Friday delivered Monday! http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/207.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/208.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/209.jpg Dropped them off to Mill for final fitting and collected whilst in Mansfield some ISO type small exhaust mounts. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/210.jpg'K&M Onsite Auto Electrics' in Mansfield are great blokes and stock a hell of a lot of gear contrary to their biz name, highly recommended !!


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[PeeBee]

I hope you have saved the pennies to hook these up - my hydraulic winch hoses cost me a kidney and an ear lobe - horrendously expensive those fittings and hoses.

[MB]

Mastercard. Priceless :-)
Lucky we all have a good mate in the hose/fittings game! http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/216.jpg


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[nissannewby]

I hope you have saved the pennies to hook these up - my hydraulic winch hoses cost me a kidney and an ear lobe - horrendously expensive those fittings and hoses.

Depends who you use. The likes of enzed, pirtek etc are very pricey. I have offered others here advice and assistance with this gear as its what I do. You be surprised how much the hose and ends are really worth.

[MB]

I am struggling on what I hope is one last issue please Mat. The Serck coolers are British/Aussie BSB 1/2" to match my existing as WA bought setup. The 'Derale' oil thermostat/fluid control coming is yanky 1/2" NPT. At some stage on the lines from BSB to NPT threads I need to change forward/back threads twice if that makes sense? Question I guess is are there 1/2"BSB<>1/2"NPT unions in Aus or just have to get em turned up custom? Cheers in advance!

[nissannewby]

I will put this here as well. 1/2" npt and bspt are the same thread at 14tpi. This means they should be able to be used in each others threads.

[MB]

Cheers Mat, thanks heaps again mate, truly appreciate your help with this. I found the link again that scared me initially to post before. https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/threads/ It was the 55 versus 60 degree angle that spooked me. Picked up the yanky oil thermo from Burson's legends on the way home from work tonight. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/221.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/02/222.jpg Really does seem well made, just was worried about the cast aluminium threads being buggered up from my mechanical butchering hands:-)


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[nissannewby]

Yeah like I said one may be a little more snug but should still work for what you want. Just use some form of thread sealant wind in as far as you can by hand and just nip it up. They dont need to be super tight.

[MB]

Cheers Mat!!

[peterc99]

Hi Mark I have spoken to Scottie at BD and explained the temps I have experienced - he said BD are getting some "new" viscous fan hubs - apparently lock up better to provide more air flow. Waiting for further info. Will post. Regards Peter.

[rainsey]

Hi Mark I have spoken to Scottie at BD and explained the temps I have experienced - he said BD are getting some "new" viscous fan hubs - apparently lock up better to provide more air flow. Waiting for further info. Will post. Regards Peter.

Hmm, I spoke to Greg on Wednesday and talking about my heating issues and he indicated that he was removing the viscous coupling from many vehicles as he had a machined adapter that brought the fan to the same position as the coupler would.

He did indicate that he was having a run of dud viscous couplers. Made no mention of any 'new' units.

Cheers

Rainsey


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[rainsey]

Hey, back on the bonnet pressure regions over the bonnet band wagon.

I got my Manometer the other day. It does gauge and differential pressure measurements. I hooked a line to the top and the bottom of the intercooler and took some measurements, interesting results.

At 80Km/h I was getting a max differential pressure across the intercooler of 0.13 " of H20 which in my mind is a pooftenth of nothing. From my understanding this almost indicates that the pressure on top of the intercooler is near the same as that underneath that thus indicates that stuff all air flow would be going through my intercooler core.

So I remove the input to the manometer from under neath the intercooler and leave it at ambient. The highest pressure I was getting at the top of the intercooler alone was 0.58 " of H20 so this effectively heaps underneath I was getting 0.45" of H20 underneath.

So from these measurements, the top of the intercooler is either a low pressure region due to where it is on the bonnet, or the inside of the engine bay is relative high pressure.

More playing to come.





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[PeeBee]

Hey, back on the bonnet pressure regions over the bonnet band wagon.

I got my Manometer the other day. It does gauge and differential pressure measurements. I hooked a line to the top and the bottom of the intercooler and took some measurements, interesting results.

At 80Km/h I was getting a max differential pressure across the intercooler of 0.13 " of H20 which in my mind is a pooftenth of nothing. From my understanding this almost indicates that the pressure on top of the intercooler is near the same as that underneath that thus indicates that stuff all air flow would be going through my intercooler core.

So I remove the input to the manometer from under neath the intercooler and leave it at ambient. The highest pressure I was getting at the top of the intercooler alone was 0.58 " of H20 so this effectively heaps underneath I was getting 0.45" of H20 underneath.

So from these measurements, the top of the intercooler is either a low pressure region due to where it is on the bonnet, or the inside of the engine bay is relative high pressure.

More playing to come.





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Rainsey, I have to agree with you that your static pressure under the bonnet is your issue, so you need to find a way of venting it. If you compared the open area of the radiator to the open area of the bonnet scoop its simple to see which would provide the least resistance, assuming that the air is going thru the radiator. This is interesting stuff for sure. I have not seen the installation of the chev turbo under a GU bonnet, but would guess its pretty cramped. Can you induce some flow like a venturi device of sorts or simply hang a couple of 3=4" ducts that scoop air from the front of the vehicle and expell it out under the car - to encourage a draft of sorts - sounds crude but might be all thats needed.

[rainsey]

Rainsey, I have to agree with you that your static pressure under the bonnet is your issue, so you need to find a way of venting it. If you compared the open area of the radiator to the open area of the bonnet scoop its simple to see which would provide the least resistance, assuming that the air is going thru the radiator. This is interesting stuff for sure. I have not seen the installation of the chev turbo under a GU bonnet, but would guess its pretty cramped. Can you induce some flow like a venturi device of sorts or simply hang a couple of 3=4" ducts that scoop air from the front of the vehicle and expell it out under the car - to encourage a draft of sorts - sounds crude but might be all thats needed.

Ha yes, this was my thought. One thing I have not stated is that I have lifted the rear of the bonnet by about 10mm in naive hope that it would assist the flow from under the bonnet out through the back thus reducing no only the heat but also the intern pressure under the bonnet.

Re the space under the bonnet, I feel there is actually more space under the bonnet with the V8 than with the original ZD30.

Like I said, now I have this toy I will be boring you all for hours with what I find.
Stay tuned...

Rainsey


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[MB]

That is an awesome gadget Rainsey, please do keep us posted mate! Not to get you spending more money but it would be cool to see 2x cheapo mechanical temp guages zip tied along each hose reading the temps at each different pressure locations you test maybe? Once you've tested the outer bonnet pressure zones it would also show ambient temp wind incoming on the day of graphing data I'm thinking? Like Mythbusters I guess with their first 'control test' before all others :-)

[MB]

Got bored waiting for the Mrs to get ready for a wedding this arvo so knocked this up as part of my puter training that may be helpful Rainsey mate.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/32.jpg No doubt I've got some of the locations and others wrong so yell out if you want the Excel file and Ai GU files. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/33.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/34.jpg


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[rainsey]

MB, That is awsome how can I get hold of these and I will start filling them out :)

[rainsey]

Say, in regards to actually taking the measurements, I have had the orifice of the pressure intake at 90 degrees to the wind flow. Is this the correct way or should I face the orifice into the wind?

Kindest regards
Rainsey

[rainsey]

That is an awesome gadget Rainsey, please do keep us posted mate! Not to get you spending more money but it would be cool to see 2x cheapo mechanical temp guages zip tied along each hose reading the temps at each different pressure locations you test maybe? Once you've tested the outer bonnet pressure zones it would also show ambient temp wind incoming on the day of graphing data I'm thinking? Like Mythbusters I guess with their first 'control test' before all others :-)

I have an idea for the temp guage. I have an Autron ( now Redarc) Oil Pressure / Turbo Boost guage in the truck that has a digital temperature guage in it as well. I use it for monitoring outside temperature. I moved the probe the other day when I was sorting out my heating issue by measuring the under bonnet temp with it. I might be able to extend the cable and bring it up next to the pressure guage hose ....

You have me thinking :)

Kindest regards

Rainsey

[PeeBee]

[QUOTE=rainsey;717385]Say, in regards to actually taking the measurements, I have had the orifice of the pressure intake at 90 degrees to the wind flow. Is this the correct way or should I face the orifice into the wind?

Kindest regards
Rainsey[/QUOTE

Rainsey, you have to be careful with the actual set-up, as the DP device you have is really designed for ductwork in a closed system. I used to do this sort of 'stuff' on a daily basis 30 yrs ago, and have probably forgotten more than i should have, so i dived into one of my 'old head book', being a Ventilation handbook from the US Aircon Society and looked up the orientations. i might be going to sound like I'm telling you how to suck eggs but i don't have that agenda, nor do i know your background, so here goes.

1) there are 3 components of Pressure , TP-total pressure, SP - Static Pressure and VP - velocity pressure.

The static pressure is typically measured at the circumferential surface of a duct, at 90 deg to the airflow

The VP is measured with the device pointing directly into the flow/direction of the air stream. The TP is simply the summation of VP +SP. This can be on the inlet side or discharge side of the airflow generator - again this is basically non existent in our case, because we don't have a fan or pump shifting a volume of air down a duct - we have a vehicle pointed into the wind with airflow generating the flow but not as a fan would.

DP or differential pressure is more a measure of pressure drop across a resistance. In your case its the intercooler. Whats tricky is trying to equate 'flow' to pressure within a 'system' that is neither contained nor uniform - I am not sure I could draw a definitive conclusion to be honest. What you would perhaps be better doing is measuring VELOCITY, using a velometer. You can, from distant memory equate these pressure values to velocity however you need a closed system and need to know the temperature to convert the air to Standard CFM at 2o DegC. The temperature is easy enough, but the under bonnet zone could hardly be construed as a closed system from which the formulas would apply - so this won't work using the instrument you have.

Ok, so i have pissed all over your parade, and where to from here. i think its velocity, not pressure you want to profile. If you record velocity profiles in the locations mark has outlined, which is probably going to qualify you fro a financial grant in PHD studies, you will know where the airflow is, and be able to generate an airflow profile, which by definition can be linked to heat extraction due to erosion and convection.

How do you do this? Unfortunately I use a simple propeller bladed device that measures in M/S or F/sec but it does not data log. i am sure these are avail. but at a cost.

I hope this starts your thinking juices flowing, and happy to tear this apart to get to the end point we all want which is to understand the airflow into the bonnet area.

[rainsey]

[QUOTE=rainsey;717385]Say, in regards to actually taking the measurements, I have had the orifice of the pressure intake at 90 degrees to the wind flow. Is this the correct way or should I face the orifice into the wind?

Kindest regards
Rainsey[/QUOTE

Rainsey, you have to be careful with the actual set-up, as the DP device you have is really designed for ductwork in a closed system. I used to do this sort of 'stuff' on a daily basis 30 yrs ago, and have probably forgotten more than i should have, so i dived into one of my 'old head book', being a Ventilation handbook from the US Aircon Society and looked up the orientations. i might be going to sound like I'm telling you how to suck eggs but i don't have that agenda, nor do i know your background, so here goes.

1) there are 3 components of Pressure , TP-total pressure, SP - Static Pressure and VP - velocity pressure.

The static pressure is typically measured at the circumferential surface of a duct, at 90 deg to the airflow

The VP is measured with the device pointing directly into the flow/direction of the air stream. The TP is simply the summation of VP +SP. This can be on the inlet side or discharge side of the airflow generator - again this is basically non existent in our case, because we don't have a fan or pump shifting a volume of air down a duct - we have a vehicle pointed into the wind with airflow generating the flow but not as a fan would.

DP or differential pressure is more a measure of pressure drop across a resistance. In your case its the intercooler. Whats tricky is trying to equate 'flow' to pressure within a 'system' that is neither contained nor uniform - I am not sure I could draw a definitive conclusion to be honest. What you would perhaps be better doing is measuring VELOCITY, using a velometer. You can, from distant memory equate these pressure values to velocity however you need a closed system and need to know the temperature to convert the air to Standard CFM at 2o DegC. The temperature is easy enough, but the under bonnet zone could hardly be construed as a closed system from which the formulas would apply - so this won't work using the instrument you have.

Ok, so i have pissed all over your parade, and where to from here. i think its velocity, not pressure you want to profile. If you record velocity profiles in the locations mark has outlined, which is probably going to qualify you fro a financial grant in PHD studies, you will know where the airflow is, and be able to generate an airflow profile, which by definition can be linked to heat extraction due to erosion and convection.

How do you do this? Unfortunately I use a simple propeller bladed device that measures in M/S or F/sec but it does not data log. i am sure these are avail. but at a cost.

I hope this starts your thinking juices flowing, and happy to tear this apart to get to the end point we all want which is to understand the airflow into the bonnet area.

Hey, no problems pissing all over my parade as I am the first to admit that I have no friggin idea what the hell I am doing, but Im having fun doing it :) Most of the stuff you mentioned I have read in few documents I have got but to be truthful, I really dont know what I am reading.

I look at it this way, ill try something and post up the info, and more knowledgable people on the subject ( eg yourself) can critic it and in doing so, we eventually get an understanding as to what we should be seeing or doing. If I sit on my butt and do nothing, other than wasting forum space, no one learns anything, including myself.

The flow vs pressure conundrum has been playing on my mind since I thought I would tackle this. My background is in electrical engineering so hydraulics is to me more of a voodoo out there concept. Regardless, pondering all this is taking my mind off how much I am spending on the truck :)

Kindest regards

Rainsey

[rainsey]

[QUOTE=rainsey;717385]Say, in regards to actually taking the measurements, I have had the orifice of the pressure intake at 90 degrees to the wind flow. Is this the correct way or should I face the orifice into the wind?

Kindest regards
Rainsey[/QUOTE

Rainsey, you have to be careful with the actual set-up, as the DP device you have is really designed for ductwork in a closed system. I used to do this sort of 'stuff' on a daily basis 30 yrs ago, and have probably forgotten more than i should have, so i dived into one of my 'old head book', being a Ventilation handbook from the US Aircon Society and looked up the orientations. i might be going to sound like I'm telling you how to suck eggs but i don't have that agenda, nor do i know your background, so here goes.

1) there are 3 components of Pressure , TP-total pressure, SP - Static Pressure and VP - velocity pressure.

The static pressure is typically measured at the circumferential surface of a duct, at 90 deg to the airflow

The VP is measured with the device pointing directly into the flow/direction of the air stream. The TP is simply the summation of VP +SP. This can be on the inlet side or discharge side of the airflow generator - again this is basically non existent in our case, because we don't have a fan or pump shifting a volume of air down a duct - we have a vehicle pointed into the wind with airflow generating the flow but not as a fan would.

DP or differential pressure is more a measure of pressure drop across a resistance. In your case its the intercooler. Whats tricky is trying to equate 'flow' to pressure within a 'system' that is neither contained nor uniform - I am not sure I could draw a definitive conclusion to be honest. What you would perhaps be better doing is measuring VELOCITY, using a velometer. You can, from distant memory equate these pressure values to velocity however you need a closed system and need to know the temperature to convert the air to Standard CFM at 2o DegC. The temperature is easy enough, but the under bonnet zone could hardly be construed as a closed system from which the formulas would apply - so this won't work using the instrument you have.

Ok, so i have pissed all over your parade, and where to from here. i think its velocity, not pressure you want to profile. If you record velocity profiles in the locations mark has outlined, which is probably going to qualify you fro a financial grant in PHD studies, you will know where the airflow is, and be able to generate an airflow profile, which by definition can be linked to heat extraction due to erosion and convection.

How do you do this? Unfortunately I use a simple propeller bladed device that measures in M/S or F/sec but it does not data log. i am sure these are avail. but at a cost.

I hope this starts your thinking juices flowing, and happy to tear this apart to get to the end point we all want which is to understand the airflow into the bonnet area.

Hey,

I just had another thought. I dont give a rats what the actual pressure is. Im not measuring something with a view to setting a defined value. What I am after is the delta. The lowest value becomes the reference and all other measurements are taken off it.

I fully understand that a manometer is really meant for the duct work in a closed system, I used to use a Magnahealic in servicing dive regulators many moons back, its the same thing. if I was to create a defined input device, such as a length of tube and the manometer input goes into this, and this same device is then moved around the various parts of the vehicle, would I not be actually be measuring in a quasi closed system? This is no good for under the bonnet perse' but I am thinking more on the on bonnet pressure measurements?

Kindest regards

Rainsey

[PeeBee]

LOL, I love it. OK, keep the thought process rolling. What we have here simply does not fit into any boxes cleanly. I will have a think about your other post and see if I can value add or at least generate a direction to move forward.

[PeeBee]

[QUOTE=PBBIZ2;717396]

Hey,

I just had another thought. I dont give a rats what the actual pressure is. Im not measuring something with a view to setting a defined value. What I am after is the delta. The lowest value becomes the reference and all other measurements are taken off it.

I fully understand that a manometer is really meant for the duct work in a closed system, I used to use a Magnahealic in servicing dive regulators many moons back, its the same thing. if I was to create a defined input device, such as a length of tube and the manometer input goes into this, and this same device is then moved around the various parts of the vehicle, would I not be actually be measuring in a quasi closed system? This is no good for under the bonnet perse' but I am thinking more on the on bonnet pressure measurements?

Kindest regards

Rainsey

OK, to generate DP you need flow and resistance. If you generate so much resistance in your hose, leading into the DP gauge and out of it, believe me we are moving into really sensitive stuff. I think what you will find is the pressure will ultimately be the same on both ends of the tube unless one end is clearly 'in the zone and the other is clearly out of it', without any external effect, such as turbulence and 'back pressure/negative pressure. I will chuck this around with some 'old heads' I know next week and see if what we are chasing is measurable. Right now I am unsure. I use magnohelics on dust collectors and baghouses. One side of the hose in in clean air/atmospheric and th other on the other side of the 'dirty filter membrane', hence DP is a simple representation, however the principal difference is that you generally have a mechanical device - a fan - pulling air thru the element. The pressure is usually positive on the dirty side and negative on the clean side, thus generating the DP. We are talking mbar and thats a fraction of a quarter of a poofteenth. I am just as keen to 'get somewhere rational with this' as i am poised to start chopping vents into my bonnet to relieve heat and generate flow.

[rainsey]

[QUOTE=rainsey;717404]

OK, to generate DP you need flow and resistance. If you generate so much resistance in your hose, leading into the DP gauge and out of it, believe me we are moving into really sensitive stuff. I think what you will find is the pressure will ultimately be the same on both ends of the tube unless one end is clearly 'in the zone and the other is clearly out of it', without any external effect, such as turbulence and 'back pressure/negative pressure. I will chuck this around with some 'old heads' I know next week and see if what we are chasing is measurable. Right now I am unsure. I use magnohelics on dust collectors and baghouses. One side of the hose in in clean air/atmospheric and th other on the other side of the 'dirty filter membrane', hence DP is a simple representation, however the principal difference is that you generally have a mechanical device - a fan - pulling air thru the element. The pressure is usually positive on the dirty side and negative on the clean side, thus generating the DP. We are talking mbar and thats a fraction of a quarter of a poofteenth. I am just as keen to 'get somewhere rational with this' as i am poised to start chopping vents into my bonnet to relieve heat and generate flow.

And thus you have hit another thing that has been knocking on my frontal lobe since looking at this. The length of the tube from the point of measurement to the device measuring it.

I would perceive that the shorter the better. Air is a compressible medium hence if the pipe or hose front of the point of measurement is too long, what stops the air in the tube being compressed resulting in the endpoint not actually having any concernable change in pressure.

So if I have a meter long length of hose going to the pressure monitor, what's to say that the actual pressure at the end of the hose matched what is at the point of measurement?

An who said philosophy was not one of my strong points :) All whilst I'm watching American Horror Story


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[PeeBee]

God, this is digging deep and on my third scotch and ice, its becoming difficult!!!

The air is only going to be compressed based on the flowrate down the tube and the resultant pressure - bearing in mind in this situation that pressure is simply system resistance as we don't have a positive compressive device like a fan or pump - itsd whatever air is flowing based on vehicle velocity into the end of the hose. Without a fan as such this is heading towards lab grade measurement device and well beyond what the mere mortal could afford.

If you had your DP device without a hose it will still detect the pressure difference, but may not indicate it unless the scale/sensitivity is correct, and unless the volume of air is significant you wont see the pressure build up in your compressible medium, so again, very small airflow is a problem. Its possible to detect very small pressure differences with a pitot tube, laid over on the side and measuring 'hundredths of an inch wg', but hard to steer down the road and not crash at the same time.

If this was water or incompressible we would be laughing for sure.

What you could do is measure the DP across the intercooler coil. The question then is whether this DP can be related to cooling capacity. The variables from a mechanical sense would be it the flow rate high enough butthe PD across the coil too great to effectively strip the heat out of the air, or is the flowrate too low to allow the coil to operate effectively. I dont know the answer as these are really design related issues - so in essence you need to find out the flow rate required, at what temperature range, the efficiency curve matches the intercooler at. The DP then is the design element that relates to the efficiency of the heat transfer device - I think thats clear??? So if the DP is too high the cooling effect is lower, if the differential temperature between the cooling air and the 'to be cooled air' is too close the efficiency drops also.End of the day its heat energy being transferred by whatever method is in play.

My glass is empty, going for a re-fill.

[rainsey]

God, this is digging deep and on my third scotch and ice, its becoming difficult!!!

The air is only going to be compressed based on the flowrate down the tube and the resultant pressure - bearing in mind in this situation that pressure is simply system resistance as we don't have a positive compressive device like a fan or pump - itsd whatever air is flowing based on vehicle velocity into the end of the hose. Without a fan as such this is heading towards lab grade measurement device and well beyond what the mere mortal could afford.

If you had your DP device without a hose it will still detect the pressure difference, but may not indicate it unless the scale/sensitivity is correct, and unless the volume of air is significant you wont see the pressure build up in your compressible medium, so again, very small airflow is a problem. Its possible to detect very small pressure differences with a pitot tube, laid over on the side and measuring 'hundredths of an inch wg', but hard to steer down the road and not crash at the same time.

If this was water or incompressible we would be laughing for sure.

What you could do is measure the DP across the intercooler coil. The question then is whether this DP can be related to cooling capacity. The variables from a mechanical sense would be it the flow rate high enough butthe PD across the coil too great to effectively strip the heat out of the air, or is the flowrate too low to allow the coil to operate effectively. I dont know the answer as these are really design related issues - so in essence you need to find out the flow rate required, at what temperature range, the efficiency curve matches the intercooler at. The DP then is the design element that relates to the efficiency of the heat transfer device - I think thats clear??? So if the DP is too high the cooling effect is lower, if the differential temperature between the cooling air and the 'to be cooled air' is too close the efficiency drops also.End of the day its heat energy being transferred by whatever method is in play.

My glass is empty, going for a re-fill.

You my man have given me inspiration. Nothing to do with Manometers but more the 12 year old Chivas I have on the shelf. Let me digest every thing we have discussed and I will see if I can catch up at least on the scotch front.

Have a great night and thankyou kindly for the insight. :)

Kindest regards
Rainsey

[PeeBee]

OK, I am going to bed, been at work since 4.30am today and a bit shagged. Will post tomorrow, and enjoy the Chivas - I am done for the night!!! Have a crack at 18TO Glenfiddich - bit drier than chivas , not a great deal different but you can drink a bottle and still be ok in the morning - well worth the cost!!!

[MB]

how can I get hold of these and I will start filling them out :) I don't think they can be sent through here mate, might need to PM an email address and I'll shoot em to ya there, Cheers!

[rainsey]

I don't think they can be sent through here mate, might need to PM an email address and I'll shoot em to ya there, Cheers!

Doh,

Why didn't I think of that.


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[MB]

All sent Rainsey, have fun and thanks for all the effort. That info will help us all heaps mate, Cheers!!

[MB]

Very very happy to report that the 4" snorkel and airbox/new custom route all done by Mill @Millweld has worked wonders! Do need to reinstall the second battery now on the chassis as previously planned. Too early to give exact figures and oil coolers aren't hooked up as yet but I can say powers up a minimum 10% would like to say 20% but that's probably too much excitement from its newfound grumble free flowing sound! I do know that water temps truly appear to be more stable, 88-92D max on the flat highway stuff back. I pushed it to roughly 102D on the last final test hill home which depending on ambient temps unloaded would reach between 104-114D tops after last radiator mods. The most intriguing thing has been fuel consumption does appear to be down significantly!! Stay tuned, like Rainsey, works flat out and we all need the coin to keep going:-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/82.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/83.jpg


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[rainsey]

Very very happy to report that the 4" snorkel and airbox/new custom route all done by Mill @Millweld has worked wonders! Do need to reinstall the second battery now on the chassis as previously planned. Too early to give exact figures and oil coolers aren't hooked up as yet but I can say powers up a minimum 10% would like to say 20% but that's probably too much excitement from its newfound grumble free flowing sound! I do know that water temps truly appear to be more stable, 88-92D max on the flat highway stuff back. I pushed it to roughly 102D on the last final test hill home which depending on ambient temps unloaded would reach between 104-114D tops after last radiator mods. The most intriguing thing has been fuel consumption does appear to be down significantly!! Stay tuned, like Rainsey, works flat out and we all need the coin to keep going:-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/82.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/83.jpg


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I don't believe it... I was in contact this week re a 4" snorkel for my truck and Millsy sent me photos of the snorkel on a GU. I state that I had a 6.5 hand he said that it was a 6.5 that he took the photo off.

The photo I have is obviously your truck. I did not enquirer re the air box as I have the standard BD K&N unit. Let me know how you go with it,

Small world

Cheers Rainsey


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[MB]

Pisser, I'm requesting royalties on pics then :-) All jokes aside and truly no spruiking for Mill here, I am am a very happy 6.5 'NA' camper :-) Phil and I currently posting here 'NA's' don't have turbos or inter coolers like you rich blokes so this mod is hands down the first needed in my newfound opinion only ;-)

[rainsey]

Pisser, I'm requesting royalties on pics then :-) All jokes aside and truly no spruiking for Mill here, I am am a very happy 6.5 'NA' camper :-) Phil and I currently posting here 'NA's' don't have turbos or inter coolers like you rich blokes so this mod is hands down the first needed in my newfound opinion only ;-)

Ha Ha, Love your work. Ive ordered mine albeit I have just gone with the plain stainless and I have bought a Donaldson Ram Head to go on it.

I'm hanging out to get it before I send the truck down for a Tune and Dyno.

I was too tight arse for the powder coating.... did you go with it for looks or functionality. Must admit , it looks pretty good.

Kindest regards
Rainsey


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[PeeBee]

Looks great mark, glad to hear you can feel tangible improvement. Of course this is only going to add pressure on me to now upgrade from the Safari 3" to Millweld 4" - yeah, thanks for that!!!

Now, start filling up that under bonnet area with junk - it looks too bare!

[PeeBee]

Where are the shots of the bullbar? I need to see what you have done with the oil coolers.

[MB]

Before and after 'dyno' drive in/outs would be perfect for here! You'll have to trust my honesty:-) In regards the reverse snorkel pipe choice, reasons being for me was that this truck is mainly off highway at lower speeds. Past my 4.2TD's and current Mrs MB's GU's experienced dust/mist/mud blockages on TJM-Airtecs with tiny back drains, Safari snorkels were shitloads better. Second reason for the 6.5 beast is snow/sleet over winter in the HC. That ice builds up and blocks forward facing heads/drains in my opinion. Thirdly, as much as I shouldn't say this but I do know how to use a 'Hi-Lift' jack on my ute tray corners safely so a 'Ram-Head' would block my rack mount up top :-)

[AB]

Very very happy to report that the 4" snorkel and airbox/new custom route all done by Mill @Millweld has worked wonders! Do need to reinstall the second battery now on the chassis as previously planned. Too early to give exact figures and oil coolers aren't hooked up as yet but I can say powers up a minimum 10% would like to say 20% but that's probably too much excitement from its newfound grumble free flowing sound! I do know that water temps truly appear to be more stable, 88-92D max on the flat highway stuff back. I pushed it to roughly 102D on the last final test hill home which depending on ambient temps unloaded would reach between 104-114D tops after last radiator mods. The most intriguing thing has been fuel consumption does appear to be down significantly!! Stay tuned, like Rainsey, works flat out and we all need the coin to keep going:-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/82.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/83.jpg


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Haven't even had a chance to see this in person but looks very sexy mate!!!


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[rainsey]

I'm putting this out there and apologies if it has already been covered,

Brunswick has sent me over a fix radiator fan flange to see if the viscous coupler is faulty. Immediate results astounding with at threats a 15 degree temp drop in all ranges.

Now struggling to keep the just around town temps over 78 degrees.

Spam have a dual electric fan set up that almost fits perfectly into the space behind the radiator and engine. Only 105mm in depth, with a static air flow of around 3,000 cfm.

I'm not a fan ( pardon the pun) of fixed fans. I can already see my fuel gauge drop before my eyes. Has any one ever played with a total electric solution or has advise based on experience with electric fans.

My thought is as follows:

1: no load on the engine hence no hit on fuel usage
2: can be controlled via a temp switch if need be and easily tinkered with.
3: if doing a creek crossing, can actually be turned off
4: at 1 in h20 static pressure, it sucks 45 amps of current ... ouch.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Kindest regards
Rainsey


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[NissanGQ4.2]

My thought is as follows:

1: no load on the engine hence no hit on fuel usage
2: can be controlled via a temp switch if need be and easily tinkered with.
3: if doing a creek crossing, can actually be turned off
4: at 1 in h20 static pressure, it sucks 45 amps of current ... ouch.



5: Thermo fans still run after ignition is switched off, cooling the radiator down

I know nothing of Chev motors but my only advise would be if going thermo fans, is make sure you have a good shroud around them

[rainsey]

5: Thermo fans still run after ignition is switched off, cooling the radiator down

I know nothing of Chev motors but my only advise would be if going thermo fans, is make sure you have a good shroud around them

Yeah, No brainer there, I have an aluminum Fabricator that has done some work for me that can build one. The shroud, perse, probably only needs to be the interface between the fans and the radiator as the Spal unit I'm looking at has a complete twin fan assembly in a frame already.

Cheers

Rainsey


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[MB]

G'day Rainsey, I'm running 2 x Davies Craig 16" fans side by side that pull 2120 cfm each. My reasons were mainly for as you've suggested for easy shut off in creek crossings and heaps of pull still at lower rpm crawling speeds. I do believe though that a good mechanical fan system will outperform my setup on the highway. I do also need to add a second alternator though because each fan draws 19amps and are controlled through a 'Derale' twin thermo switch system roughly 10F degrees apart. So if I need to winch and both fans are on I'm stuffed at the moment. Other cooling mods underway should see the second fan almost not needed I'm hoping.
Gotta head to dinner now so can send some pics tomorrow if you need mate, Cheers!

[MB]

Almost forgot, there is a USA mob doing a twin electric setup for the Duramax donk now and it's a massive 6,000cfm (3,000 x 2 I assume) The amp draw was frightening though, I'll try and find the link tomorrow for you too.

[rainsey]

5: Thermo fans still run after ignition is switched off, cooling the radiator down

I know nothing of Chev motors but my only advise would be if going thermo fans, is make sure you have a good shroud around them

On the thurmo fan running after the engine is turned off, I would consider this superfluous as in my naive understanding we want to cool the block. With the engine off, no water is circulated hence we are probably waisting good battery capacity for no reason.

More than happy to be shown the errors of my thought pattern.

Kindest regards
Rainsey


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[rainsey]

G'day Rainsey, I'm running 2 x Davies Craig 16" fans side by side that pull 2120 cfm each. My reasons were mainly for as you've suggested for easy shut off in creek crossings and heaps of pull still at lower rpm crawling speeds. I do believe though that a good mechanical fan system will outperform my setup on the highway. I do also need to add a second alternator though because each fan draws 19amps and are controlled through a 'Derale' twin thermo switch system roughly 10F degrees apart. So if I need to winch and both fans are on I'm stuffed at the moment. Other cooling mods underway should see the second fan almost not needed I'm hoping.
Gotta head to dinner now so can send some pics tomorrow if you need mate, Cheers!

You have just hit on something that I never thought of, thank you .... winching. Having said that, most of my winching has been short periods, probably no more than half an hour and not in a situation where I could not stop. This does not mean this will change.

I am pondering on the idea of a hydraulic winch. I still want to do this as you can winch all day and only suck 2 or 3 amps. The reason I have not done it yet is that with the set up under the bonnet with the serpentine belt, stuffed if I can figure out how to put in an additional oil pump. Don't want to winch off my stearing pump.

Thanks for the jog of the synaps. Good point.

Kindest regards
Rainsey


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[NissanGQ4.2]

On the thurmo fan running after the engine is turned off, I would consider this superfluous as in my naive understanding we want to cool the block. With the engine off, no water is circulated hence we are probably waisting good battery capacity for no reason.

More than happy to be shown the errors of my thought pattern.

Kindest regards
Rainsey


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Not sure Rainsey, I'm for from mechanically minded, but do believe new cars that have thermo's work the same way. See you point, with not cooling the block when switched off. I guess at least if it starts 2 get hot, you can switch it off and have the fans running cooling the radiator before is pops the cap and looses coolant :)

[rainsey]

Not sure Rainsey, I'm for from mechanically minded, but do believe new cars that have thermo's work the same way. See you point, with not cooling the block when switched off. I guess at least if it starts 2 get hot, you can switch it off and have the fans running cooling the radiator before is pops the cap and looses coolant :)

Yeah, my wife's Subaru Outback only has thermo fans and they sometime roar after we had pulled up and stopped. For the life of em I can never figure out why. Further more, if you ever see the pitiful excuse for a battery in a Subi the last thing you want is something draining power when the engine is off. :)


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[NissanGQ4.2]

For the life of em I can never figure out why

My guess is because the fans are set to constant power and the temp is still over what the factory temp is set at the temp switch when turned off, if that makes sense.

[PeeBee]

You have just hit on something that I never thought of, thank you .... winching. Having said that, most of my winching has been short periods, probably no more than half an hour and not in a situation where I could not stop. This does not mean this will change.

I am pondering on the idea of a hydraulic winch. I still want to do this as you can winch all day and only suck 2 or 3 amps. The reason I have not done it yet is that with the set up under the bonnet with the serpentine belt, stuffed if I can figure out how to put in an additional oil pump. Don't want to winch off my stearing pump.

Thanks for the jog of the synaps. Good point.

Kindest regards
Rainsey


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Rainsey, why not consider an upgraded power steering pump with greater volume? You may be able to find something even like a variable vane pump that will operate with higher volume, however you would need a bias valve to isolated the power steering action when winching or the flow will drop off momentarily. I have fitted my aux pump with a lot of effort, and have just this week received the gear pump from the UK and am looking at the PTO driven option - hassle is the BD exhaust and this places a lot of restrictions, plus the offset of the PTO output shaft and the mounting of the pump to PTO are going to be a big challenge. I will share what I eventually come up with.
Also, have a loot at some of the readily avail dual alternator set-ups in US. You may find a clue in the belt wraps they modify.

[rainsey]

Rainsey, why not consider an upgraded power steering pump with greater volume? You may be able to find something even like a variable vane pump that will operate with higher volume, however you would need a bias valve to isolated the power steering action when winching or the flow will drop off momentarily. I have fitted my aux pump with a lot of effort, and have just this week received the gear pump from the UK and am looking at the PTO driven option - hassle is the BD exhaust and this places a lot of restrictions, plus the offset of the PTO output shaft and the mounting of the pump to PTO are going to be a big challenge. I will share what I eventually come up with.
Also, have a loot at some of the readily avail dual alternator set-ups in US. You may find a clue in the belt wraps they modify.

The big problem I have is working during the day, trying to renovate the house, finishing the rear deck, trying to modify the truck building the new stairs balustrade yadda yadda yadda .... to be brutally honest.. I'm stuffed.

Re the winch pump ... its sort of 305 down on the it's of what I need to do let alone what I'd like to do.

When I get all of my other issues sorted ... over heating, under power, crappy fuel economy.... I'll speak to the Dept of House and Finance and see if she will let me start work on the Hydraulic pump project.

I seriously will be interested in what you do. Sorry for sounding like a lazy F&*k but you know when you sit back and just realize how much you have started and how much you have actually finished ...

What I was after for the winch issue was a simple turnkey hydraulic pump solution that a vendor would say ... Here .. thi si what you need. Instead, I have been trying to contact over seas companies re hydraulic pup specs with absolutely no reply.

If I had a land rover or a derivative there of, no brainer....

Sorry for the negative response.

Kindest regards

Rainsey




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[PeeBee]

The big problem I have is working during the day, trying to renovate the house, finishing the rear deck, trying to modify the truck building the new stairs balustrade yadda yadda yadda .... to be brutally honest.. I'm stuffed.

Re the winch pump ... its sort of 305 down on the it's of what I need to do let alone what I'd like to do.

When I get all of my other issues sorted ... over heating, under power, crappy fuel economy.... I'll speak to the Dept of House and Finance and see if she will let me start work on the Hydraulic pump project.

I seriously will be interested in what you do. Sorry for sounding like a lazy F&*k but you know when you sit back and just realize how much you have started and how much you have actually finished ...

What I was after for the winch issue was a simple turnkey hydraulic pump solution that a vendor would say ... Here .. thi si what you need. Instead, I have been trying to contact over seas companies re hydraulic pup specs with absolutely no reply.

If I had a land rover or a derivative there of, no brainer....

Sorry for the negative response.

Kindest regards

Rainsey




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All good, and understand that life is simply about priorities and choices. I struggled just to get the flowrate of the nissan pump, then to find an aux. that would deliver in excess of that in a small package. The belt driven pump is supplied without a pulley, so you could fit a serpentine belt unit if required. mY PUMP IS RATED AT 25LPM@2000RPM PUMP SPEED . You are correct regards selection of the hydraulic style for extended winching, and if you search long enough will find a solution that meets your needs with minimal hassle - but as you say, you are time poor and we have all been there.

[MB]

Pics of the twin 16" fans Rainsey.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/121.jpg Not suggesting this is the way you should go as I'm unsure of your usage plans mate. In regards shrouds for electric fans it is my belief that they are already built into them and with a twin setup I'd say my custom fat brass radiator appears at least 80% covered. Space wise with a GU 6.5 conversion I reckon a shroud would be near flat blocking sheet metal anyway. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/122.jpg One very important lesson I've learnt the hard way on previous rigs is to never use those electric fan push through radiator zips or bolts with fender washers sometimes also supplied. They will destroy a radiators cores in off-road conditions IMO. Weld up proper mounting rails to bolt to and keep the fans just a few mm off touching the radiator. Pic below also of the 'Derale' control unit for the fans. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/123.jpgIt has some great positives but also some quirks that I'm trying to adjust/iron out. Positive 1&2 are that it only requires 1 x sender and also auto kicks the second fan on 10F higher for emergencies. Issues are that it requires 10F below fan 1 kick off to turn off fan 2. I have combated this by a 60 sec full shutdown reset of its brain whilst coasting along. Once all cooling mods are done it should be ok but I'm thinking 2 x seperate senders with seperate adjustments each would be better. Cheers!



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[rainsey]

Pics of the twin 16" fans Rainsey.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/121.jpg Not suggesting this is the way you should go as I'm unsure of your usage plans mate. In regards shrouds for electric fans it is my belief that they are already built into them and with a twin setup I'd say my custom fat brass radiator appears at least 80% covered. Space wise with a GU 6.5 conversion I reckon a shroud would be near flat blocking sheet metal anyway. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/122.jpg One very important lesson I've learnt the hard way on previous rigs is to never use those electric fan push through radiator zips or bolts with fender washers sometimes also supplied. They will destroy a radiators cores in off-road conditions IMO. Weld up proper mounting rails to bolt to and keep the fans just a few mm off touching the radiator. Pic below also of the 'Derale' control unit for the fans. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/03/123.jpgIt has some great positives but also some quirks that I'm trying to adjust/iron out. Positive 1&2 are that it only requires 1 x sender and also auto kicks the second fan on 10F higher for emergencies. Issues are that it requires 10F below fan 1 kick off to turn off fan 2. I have combated this by a 60 sec full shutdown reset of its brain whilst coasting along. Once all cooling mods are done it should be ok but I'm thinking 2 x seperate senders with seperate adjustments each would be better. Cheers!



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Whoooooooooo.... brain is going to overload. Can we talk?


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[MB]

Anytime Rainsey mate, I'll PM mobile number. Just a thought, AB's donk party forum meetup is only a month away down here in Mexico. Phil is coming along with his beast and pizza ovens. I reckon a third 6.5er in attendance would be tops mate if you're free and up for a state border crossing into some good test country over the 4 day ANZAC weekend !

[PeeBee]

Anytime Rainsey mate, I'll PM mobile number. Just a thought, AB's donk party forum meetup is only a month away down here in Mexico. Phil is coming along with his beast and pizza ovens. I reckon a third 6.5er in attendance would be tops mate if you're free and up for a state border crossing into some good test country over the 4 day ANZAC weekend !

Come on Rainsey, its going to be tremendous weekend by all accounts. I am looking forward to putting some faces to the 'signatures' on the site.

[rainsey]

Come on Rainsey, its going to be tremendous weekend by all accounts. I am looking forward to putting some faces to the 'signatures' on the site.

Ha ha... love your persuasion. Unfortunately I have a serious appointment that weekend with my wife for our 28th wedding anniversary. I want a 29th!!

I seriously want to get together with everyone on this forum but if I passed up on this weekend, I'd be looking for permanent residence in one of your garages.

I love my 6.5 but to be political correct I have to state I love my missus more :)

Kindest regards
Rainsey



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[PeeBee]

Ha ha... love your persuasion. Unfortunately I have a serious appointment that weekend with my wife for our 28th wedding anniversary. I want a 29th!!

I seriously want to get together with everyone on this forum but if I passed up on this weekend, I'd be looking for permanent residence in one of your garages.

I love my 6.5 but to be political correct I have to state I love my missus more :)

Kindest regards
Rainsey



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Its ok, these thoughts will pass in time and all will be well. I have cleared a space under the bench in case you are able to harden up in time.

[poindexter]

After reading the WHOLE thread today, my question is : is it mandatory to have the GVM upgrade when doing the 6.5 conversion?
Also, if possible, I would like to see, in the metal, some of these vehicles. I'm in UFTG victoria, as I'm contemplating such a move.

[PeeBee]

If your gvm is over nameplate then you run the risk of not being insured, and if you are unlucky and end up being put over a weigh bridge by the RTA, they will fine you and put you off the road.
I am in knoxfield, so pm me your contact details and we can meet. Mine is the 6.5 optimiser n/a manual conversion.
PHIL

[Winnie]

After reading the WHOLE thread today, my question is : is it mandatory to have the GVM upgrade when doing the 6.5 conversion?
Also, if possible, I would like to see, in the metal, some of these vehicles. I'm in UFTG victoria, as I'm contemplating such a move.
Hey mate, have a look on the forum for the thread about the big meetup on MB's property. I think it's called AB's donk party thread.
I know of 2 6.5s attending there and would be a nice chance to meet a lot of forum members.

[MB]

Good work Winnie! Yep the thread is: 'ABs Donk Party ANZAC Day Weekend' there was another shorter titled thread but the active one is above.

[PeeBee]

Guys, just back from a trip up to Butcher Country in Vic high country, thought I would share some stats.

Fuel econony 7.6km/L (22mpg)
Typical EGT cruising 240Deg C, ambient temps 28 Deg C, speed 100k/hr
Rad temp 64 DegC
Oil temps circa 68 Deg C
Max EGT under hard acceleration at 130km/hr long uphill pull, 550 DegC
Max temps off road low range. long climb, 88 Deg C rad, 92 Deg C oil, 400 Deg C EGT's
Mix of 400klm highway and 165 klm low range - 5km/hr sort of stuff.
Pretty happy with these numbers.

[MB]

Good work Phil :-) Double Cheers Mate!!

[PeeBee]

Whats happening with your oil coolers?

[MB]

Patience my good friend:-) Dog just asked us the same question. Fire seasons over, time to get back onto GM mods ;-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/30.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/31.jpg


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[PeeBee]

The sight and size of that shed is starting to annoy me!

[MB]

Loan tack on atops mate, welcome anytime:-) !

[PeeBee]

[QUOTE=MB;721351]Loan tack on atops mate, welcome anytime:

Is this in code or has spell check caught you?

[MB]

Yep, spell check was the issue, lol

[MB]

Finally squeezed my second battery back in again after Millweld's awesome 4" intake system stole some space :-)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/110.jpg Seriously running out of real estate now, no idea where the second alternator is going to go!


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[MB]

Phil mate, I also found this grease nipple hidden under where the old NA Donaldson filter was positioned.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/111.jpgIt seems to be heading down into the bellhousing/adaptor plate. Did Brunswick mention to you what it is greasing, thrust bearing maybe?


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[PeeBee]

Nope, will have a look and see if mine has the same. You might have the surprise pack, that fails due to lack of lubrication!!! Hope not, but nothing in the paperwork and no manual supplied as such regards maintaining it. I would be surprised if its for a thrust bearing, can't see how they would config a grease point.

[PeeBee]

Finally squeezed my second battery back in again after Millweld's awesome 4" intake system stole some space :-)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/110.jpg Seriously running out of real estate now, no idea where the second alternator is going to go!


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That is a beautiful looking setup compared to the BD green corrugated hose. Have a good look at my fitment on the get together. I have a huge amount of room under where my second alternator sits, so after I relocate the difflock compressor to the other side of the engine bay, I am going to install the endless air under the alternator. Your battery looks like it should 'go there', such a neat job.
What is the filter and have you checked its specs verses the BD supplied unit?

[MB]

Nope, will have a look and see if mine has the same. You might have the surprise pack, that fails due to lack of lubrication!!! Hope not, but nothing in the paperwork and no manual supplied as such regards maintaining it. I would be surprised if its for a thrust bearing, can't see how they would config a grease point.
Cheers Phil, I'm definitely stressing out now as I never knew it was there hidden away and I've done at least 50,000km in it now! There almost has to be some other need inside the conversion adaptor plate area as I too can't imagine grease near the clutch plate would be too good! Please do let me know if you find one too mate, Cheers!

[MB]

That is a beautiful looking setup compared to the BD green corrugated hose. Have a good look at my fitment on the get together. I have a huge amount of room under where my second alternator sits, so after I relocate the difflock compressor to the other side of the engine bay, I am going to install the endless air under the alternator. Your battery looks like it should 'go there', such a neat job. What is the filter and have you checked its specs verses the BD supplied unit?
Cheers again Phil, yep definitely looking forward to seeing your truck at the shindig soon mate! The Millweld GU airbox comes with a BMC BA Falcon GT filter but I can't seem to find its specs. I've definitely gained at least 10% more go though, very happy with it mate, hope it's ok to use on a 6.5 Chev :-)

[MB]

http://www.millweld.com/a/Airboxes

http://www.bmcairfilter.com/eng/car-filters/fb344-21/420/art

[PeeBee]

Cheers Phil, I'm definitely stressing out now as I never knew it was there hidden away and I've done at least 50,000km in it now! There almost has to be some other need inside the conversion adaptor plate area as I too can't imagine grease near the clutch plate would be too good! Please do let me know if you find one too mate, Cheers!

Give BD a call on Tuesday - Scotty will certainly tell you what its for.

[MB]

Will do Tuesday, thanks Phil. Just checked Marks Adaptors website and their kit doesn't seem to have it pictured or listed either.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/6.png I'm now learning/thinking its got something to do with the input shaft GM-Nissan extension and or their mentioned thrust bearing extension carrier.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/04/7.png Lot's of little extra bits in there too I never new existed.
http://www.marks4wd.com/mfk605cd.html
Do you know if Scotty uses Marks kits or they have their own inhouse adaptor setup mate? Cheers!


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[PeeBee]

Don't know who's kit they use, but for something as significant as a lub point it should be highlighted. I am going to have a look at my docs now and will come back with anything of value.

[PeeBee]

Don't know who's kit they use, but for something as significant as a lub point it should be highlighted. I am going to have a look at my docs now and will come back with anything of value.

Nothing in BD docs about the grease nipple. I am going to call Greg on Tuesday about having then clearly define how to bleed the injection system, as I got a gulp of air when running off the aux. tank on a steep downhill section and the engine spluttered to a stop. It was a pretty stressful 10 minutes trying to reprime when the filter bowl is full, the hand pump hard and no bubbles anywhere, what next? If cracking an injector, which one or how many, and as you know the pump is in the 'valley' and 80 percent cover erred by the air cleaner. Got it going in the end by pumping and cranking at the same time but took 2 people, what is the system if there is just me?

[nissannewby]

Crack all the lines at the injector and crank until you see fuel coming from them. This can be done in 15-20sec goes until fuel is visible at all injectors. Then just tighten them all back up and it should start, maybe a little rough at first on the odd occasion but will clear itself.

As for the bellhousing adaptor grease point this shouldnot require much at all. 1 pump each 10k service will be heaps. Or piss it off and go a proper auto and never look back.

[PeeBee]

Crack all the lines at the injector and crank until you see fuel coming from them. This can be done in 15-20sec goes until fuel is visible at all injectors. Then just tighten them all back up and it should start, maybe a little rough at first on the odd occasion but will clear itself.

As for the bellhousing adaptor grease point this shouldnot require much at all. 1 pump each 10k service will be heaps. Or piss it off and go a proper auto and never look back.

Thanks for that. Pain in the arse location to get to the pump unfortunately, even harder with the car pointed down hill. but do able..

[nissannewby]

Thanks for that. Pain in the arse location to get to the pump unfortunately, even harder with the car pointed down hill. but do able..

I know I have worked on these. The injectors are easy enough to get to though. Should be a 17mm nut so just an open end spanner should be all you will need. Should always bleed them at the injector end.

[MB]

As for the bellhousing adaptor grease point this shouldnot require much at all. 1 pump each 10k service will be heaps. Or piss it off and go a proper auto and never look back. Thanks heaps Mat mate! Being that it hasn't had a single pump in over 50k would 5 pumps you reckon be over the top mate, maybe just 2 or 3 to be safe?

[nissannewby]

Thanks heaps Mat mate! Being that it hasn't had a single pump in over 50k would 5 pumps you reckon be over the top mate, maybe just 2 or 3 to be safe?

Just 1 mate. If you worried say do 1 now and another in 1000km then maybe another 1000k after that then go out to 10k. You really dont want much at all in there.

[MB]

Roger that, will do, Cheers for the advice as always mate!!

[PeeBee]

Just 1 mate. If you worried say do 1 now and another in 1000km then maybe another 1000k after that then go out to 10k. You really dont want much at all in there.

Mark, I don't have this fitting on mine, or at least I can't see it in the same location as yours. Is your truck a manual or auto? I will check with BD on tuesday anyway.

[PeeBee]

I know I have worked on these. The injectors are easy enough to get to though. Should be a 17mm nut so just an open end spanner should be all you will need. Should always bleed them at the injector end.

You haven't seen under my bonnet Mat! Anyway, I have locked the info away for a time in the future when it gets me again. Appreciate the specific heads up.
Phil

[MB]

Mark, I don't have this fitting on mine, or at least I can't see it in the same location as yours. Is your truck a manual or auto? I will check with BD on tuesday anyway. Thanks Phil mate, greatly appreciated! I am still running the stock as was in bought manual GU tough as f#ck box. Mat I believe is just reinterating to me his kindly advised power shift momentum spikes to an auto for us all, which is no doubt the best 6.5 advice :-) Personally do love the 2,000rpm - change - 500rpm - change 2,000rpm change wanky noise build up :-) Sorry Mat mate, autos just make me so nervous as I don't understand them and to be honest clutch work gives me something to do ;-)

[PeeBee]

Thanks Phil mate, greatly appreciated! I am still running the stock as was in bought manual GU tough as f#ck box. Mat I believe is just reinterating to me his kindly advised power shift momentum spikes to an auto for us all, which is no doubt the best 6.5 advice :-) Personally do love the 2,000rpm - change - 500rpm - change 2,000rpm change wanky noise build up :-) Sorry Mat mate, autos just make me so nervous as I don't understand them and to be honest clutch work gives me something to do ;-)

Totally different engine to operate than the old 2.8TD which loved and needed to be revved to get it going. Agree, mine chuffs along at the 2000 - 2400rpm and love that 'rumbling sound' - think there is a song about that - Copperhead Road - luv it.

[nissannewby]

Thanks Phil mate, greatly appreciated! I am still running the stock as was in bought manual GU tough as f#ck box. Mat I believe is just reinterating to me his kindly advised power shift momentum spikes to an auto for us all, which is no doubt the best 6.5 advice :-) Personally do love the 2,000rpm - change - 500rpm - change 2,000rpm change wanky noise build up :-) Sorry Mat mate, autos just make me so nervous as I don't understand them and to be honest clutch work gives me something to do ;-)

Mark if you had an allison behind that you would never look back mate. Such a great box and they really make something like the pox 6.5 shine. The allison can be programmed as well which is great and you can have a tow mode. This tow mode can have it behaving very much like a manual. It will lock the convertor from 2nd gear and will also downshift on decel like a manual which is fantastic for downhill control while towing. You can also have a manual mode so you can flick up and down gears as you please. They are really a good thing especially with the very short torque band engines.

Im pretty sure ET converted his to an auto although he used a 4L transmission.

[MB]

It is great advice thanks again Mat mate and will definitely investigate the Allison auto a bit further down the track. Do like the sound of the tow mode and the manual mode option too! I'm a little bit fuddy duddy scared of electrical stuff, this truck is my first ever with electric windows :-)

[PeeBee]

Not convinced about the 'POX 6.5' comment. Mine goes fine, and after drowning an auto and destroying it, you could NEVER get me behind another one, regardless of the attributes for towing..

[MB]

It's all good Phil mate :-) I have seen first hand what Mat can achieve from higher revving diesels for a quarter of the coin! Just a bit of healthy educational banter to and fro as we've done well after midnight on Roofy's donk party :-) Our current usage needs for the Vic-HC will find keeping everything as simple as possible through the mud the blood and the....:-) Mat is right, ET too, an auto will change if set correctly at the optimum RPM range in the Outback for sure!!

[nissannewby]

Not convinced about the 'POX 6.5' comment. Mine goes fine, and after drowning an auto and destroying it, you could NEVER get me behind another one, regardless of the attributes for towing..

Dont stress mate it is only my opinion and if you go back through this thread you will find it has always been the same. What matters is I still offer the advice regarding these as I do have a little experience with these. I have rebuilt these engines, diagnosed fuel systems and repaired them, driven them in the factory fitments and also patrol fitments. I will always offer suggestions and can sometimes be a little passionate about it as I do just want people to get the most from their conversions regardless of what I think if the engine. But thats all they are, I am and cannot make you do anything, I am just trying to keep you and the people informed and possibly even provoke some more research on the subject. You can lead a horse to water.....

For whats its worth I have also driven a duramax powered patrol with around 500rwhp. If it wasnt for the allison behind it then it would have been a pig to drive.

[PeeBee]

Dont stress mate it is only my opinion and if you go back through this thread you will find it has always been the same. What matters is I still offer the advice regarding these as I do have a little experience with these. I have rebuilt these engines, diagnosed fuel systems and repaired them, driven them in the factory fitments and also patrol fitments. I will always offer suggestions and can sometimes be a little passionate about it as I do just want people to get the most from their conversions regardless of what I think if the engine. But thats all they are, I am and cannot make you do anything, I am just trying to keep you and the people informed and possibly even provoke some more research on the subject. You can lead a horse to water.....

For whats its worth I have also driven a duramax powered patrol with around 500rwhp. If it wasnt for the allison behind it then it would have been a pig to drive.

That's fine, understood and not mortally wounded. You have validated your comments ant I accept your perspective.

[MB]

Can we all be friends now fellas :-) @ Rainsey Graham mate, how's that Manometer going? You are a busy man I know sorry mate, stay the cause though in good time ;-)

[katwoman]

Quick Q. What's the average running temp of a 350 chev, straight gas ?


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[MB]

My old one years back used to love running between 90-95D in my yahoo days Kat, of course would depend on the TS installed and what your using it for I would imagine.

[katwoman]

My old one years back used to love running between 90-95D in my yahoo days Kat, of course would depend on the TS installed and what your using it for I would imagine.

The pig runs at about 80 then gets hot towing. Just weighing up whether to get a new water pump. I know the engine is tired, but I need to start using it for work.


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[MB]

It could still also be the thermostat Kat, only issues cooling I ever experienced on the old girl were them stuck halfway or thereabouts. They're cheap enough to try first, maybe say an 82D or 85D being that our cold Vic winter is approaching. Boil up the old one in a pot of water to see what it does too for the hell of it. Blocked radiators also gave me grief but was fortunate enough to never have a pump go mate. Johno99 might also have some better knowledge too Kat as he seems to have a business with 350 Chev donk classics daily working on them!

[katwoman]

It could still also be the thermostat Kat, only issues cooling I ever experienced on the old girl were them stuck halfway or thereabouts. They're cheap enough to try first, maybe say an 82D or 85D being that our cold Vic winter is approaching. Boil up the old one in a pot of water to see what it does too for the hell of it. Blocked radiators also gave me grief but was fortunate enough to never have a pump go mate. Johno99 might also have some better knowledge too Kat as he seems to have a business with 350 Chev donk classics daily working on them!

Thanks Mark, it's not currently running a thermostat and I did a radiator flush today, but may need to pull it out and get done properly.

[MB]

Most welcome, definitely does need a thermostat put back in Kat, even when a TS is full open it still restricts the flow for some cooling time in the radiator.

[katwoman]

Most welcome, definitely does need a thermostat put back in Kat, even when a TS is full open it still restricts the flow for some cooling time in the radiator.

High flow, do you think ? Or just standard

[MB]

Its just a stock donk yeah, no crazy lumpy cams or anything mate? Stick with a standard for now I'd say best.

[rainsey]

Can we all be friends now fellas :-) @ Rainsey Graham mate, how's that Manometer going? You are a busy man I know sorry mate, stay the cause though in good time ;-)

Hey sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Ive been madly catching up on my home renovating needs since we have finally ( touch wood) got some clear weather. Got a 4 days away up coming weekend with the missus for our wedding anniversary so definitely won't be using it there...

Weather holding, I'll get back into the pressure measurements week after.

Stay tuned.


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[MB]

No stress mate and congratulations on another good year, Happy Anniversary you two!

[poindexter]

Hi MB,

From our discussions on Hi output alternators.
this is the web site I was referring to.

http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/index.html

cheers

by the way, great donk party

[Winnie]

That reminds me Mark, if you want that TD42 alternator it's all yours. Doing a shed clear out soon so would be good to get rid of it to be honest

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[MB]

Hi MB, From our discussions on Hi output alternators. this is the web site I was referring to. http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/index.html cheers by the way, great donk party Thank you very much Ralph mate, appreciated!!

[MB]

That reminds me Mark, if you want that TD42 alternator it's all yours. Doing a shed clear out soon so would be good to get rid of it to be honest Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Thank you too Chrisso mate, great folks allofya ;-) !

[MB]

Navi's video below may help someone out there for 6.5/Trol/Manual-5Stock ratio outa the mountains test, 2,500Rpm/110kmph ;-) https://youtu.be/pdWUAP6vj7M


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[PeeBee]

My BD supplied aftermarket alternator/vacuum pump died on the trip home from the donk party, after a mammoth 2496klm ex new fit net. Looks like the insulation has broken down with a lot of brown/black dust blown out the rear of the casing. BD are sending over a replacement but it's the same make, so might have to look at alternatives, such as stock Nissan in future.

[MB]

Think I might have found my dream alternator gents and bulletproof too they reckon :-)!
http://www.delcoremy.com/getmedia/3716189f-568e-4d81-8fb2-397dd61b2905/38SI-Single-Page-Brochure-6-16.pdf.aspx
215amps with 121amps at idle.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/2.png
It is bulky but measured it up this morning and in theory should just fit drivers side behind the power steering reservoir with a 200mm supported extension shaft to pickup the existing Mitsubishi alternator V belt inline.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/79.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/80.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/81.jpg 121amps at idle should power the 6hp Warn/Mahle motor no sweat :-)


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[PeeBee]

I thought I was the only one setting myself next to impossible tasks! Good luck with this one Mark, the brackets are going to be a head twist, especially mounted off the engine and with the shaft extension. Make sure you use self aligning bearings/pillow blocks i reckon and these need to take the belt tension, so the alternator shaft doesn't see the tension load at all. I look forward to your adventure!!!! I am guessing the config is something like pulley, then a pair of spaced pillow blocks on a plate, shaft coupled to the alternator, would probably go for a coupling that allows for minor misalignment.

[MB]

Lucky I know a good Mechanical Engineer PeeBee you'll have it properly installed for me Phil in no time at all :-) I'd better finish off installing my oil coolers first before even contemplating this even wackier idea me thinks ;-)

[PeeBee]

More than happy to assist, but be aware that any job I take on with a projected timeframe needs to be multiplied by 3, so 5hrs = 15. This accounts for the talking, stupid decisions, rework, scrapping and starting again, soul searching and then getting it sorted in the final 15 minutes.

[MB]

Sounds great Phil :-) Actually spent some time just now trying to nut out the possibilities and I reckon it's not too bad. The heads on these donks have 2 x spare mounting holes either end, front/back. The custom PS pump mount is currently using the 2 x front ones but bolts could be removed and longer installed. I'm thinking along the lines of a 50mm x 8mm plate bolted each end with an 8mm plate bridge system over the rocker for dropping the alternator on top of maybe?

[PeeBee]

Sounds great Phil :-) Actually spent some time just now trying to nut out the possibilities and I reckon it's not too bad. The heads on these donks have 2 x spare mounting holes either end, front/back. The custom PS pump mount is currently using the 2 x front ones but bolts could be removed and longer installed. I'm thinking along the lines of a 50mm x 8mm plate bolted each end with an 8mm plate bridge system over the rocker for dropping the alternator on top of maybe?

If you can keep the bearings, jack shaft and alternator in the same place then use the existing pulley drive/take-up this is the way to go. I am tipping you will only have a single belt to drive the alternator? If so also need to consider the greatest belt wrap you can achieve, as a guide around 120 deg should suffice - less and he belts could squeal and slip. I don't like the belt take-up on my conversion as it is very difficult to adjust and only relies on the friction clamp of a single bolt to maintain the belt tension - maybe yours is different?

[MB]

Great advice mate, looks like it can achieve the 120 no probs. My existing alternator must be same as yours barely 90 :-(

[PeeBee]

Great advice mate, looks like it can achieve the 120 no probs. My existing alternator must be same as yours barely 90 :-(

Mine is 110amp, but will wait to see how long this one lasts. I see there is a 170a nissan patrol alternator with pump on ebay for $490, so will wait and see. Upgrading the standard unit above what i have now isn't warranted, but food for thought.

[MB]

Mine is 110amp, but will wait to see how long this one lasts. I see there is a 170a nissan patrol alternator with pump on ebay for $490, so will wait and see. Upgrading the standard unit above what i have now isn't warranted, but food for thought.
When you get time mate any chance of finding that 170a link for us. I've sized up GQ alts with rear vac pump we need and they would fit the existing brackets but was told even the 125a one had ceased production:-(

[PeeBee]

When you get time mate any chance of finding that 170a link for us. I've sized up GQ alts with rear vac pump we need and they would fit the existing brackets but was told even the 125a one had ceased production:-(

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/142374269258?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[MB]

Ok then, wow, thanks Phil!
"Back in stock" it says, do you reckon they are refurbished pimped up/stretched things? We have to be careful of the vacuum pump hitting the intake manifold on the chev's too mate.

[PeeBee]

Ok then, wow, thanks Phil!
"Back in stock" it says, do you reckon they are refurbished pimped up/stretched things? We have to be careful of the vacuum pump hitting the intake manifold on the chev's too mate.

Says brand new. Send them a question about dimensions. I dont know how they compare with the BD supplied unit.

[PeeBee]

Says brand new. Send them a question about dimensions. I dont know how they compare with the BD supplied unit.

If they are the same length, getting hold of winnies unit or perhaps any of the TD42 alternator/pumps should tell you if it will fit. Going off your shots previously you seem to have a fair bit of room

[MB]

Might still have to take Winnie up on his kind offer to borrow his old one for mock up fitting tests. When my truck was up at Millweld we held an old rusty one over the top and found the mounts pictured below were same.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/91.jpg The issue appears to be the vac pump pictured below being very close to cylinder #1 intake manifold as from memory the Nissan one looked closer than the existing Mitsubishi in now. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/92.jpg


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[Winnie]

No worries mate. I need to come up your way at some stage to grab some doors off Rossco, I'll let you know when I'll be around

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[MB]

Legend, thanks Chrisso!

[Rossco]

Hey markie, I've got my old standard alternator in the shed. If it's any help it's yours.

That alternator looks like an absolute beast BTW . .

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[MB]

Cheers Rossco, is it a GQ TD42 with vac pump rear mounted mate?

[Rossco]

Yep that the one. .

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[PeeBee]

Are you still thinking of the 170a unit as an aux. or replacement? If replacement then cable size and maybe the front mount plates might be all you need to play with - BD absolutely dont use the nissan unit, they told me that and I think its a mistake to be honest. This upgraded unit has capacity upgrades in amps and vac, so win win. The monster one is a beauty and certainly will benefit when winching.

[MB]

Yep, replacement mate. Then look at an aux down the track as backup. Reckon even the 170a will be working hard with 6hp motor + twin 19a thermos + lights etc.... 170a is a lot to ask of a TD42 alt :-)

[PeeBee]

Yep, replacement mate. Then look at an aux down the track as backup. Reckon even the 170a will be working hard with 6hp motor + twin 19a thermos + lights etc.... 170a is a lot to ask of a TD42 alt :-)

I bought a Uniwelder many years ago and it was rated at 200a 100% duty cycle as it was powering a welder as well as the vehicle alternator. i was told that automotive alternators are duty rated at max amps for corca 5%, so its understandable why they struggle under the load of a winch. The 200a unit I have is 100% duty rated for just that reason.

[MB]

Some good news, just picked up Rossco's old alt and I'm 99.99% hopeful after measuring it will fit, bolt out, bolt in :-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/93.jpgHole measurements spacings are identical http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/94.jpg The only difference looks like the GQTD42 alt vac pump protudes a further 15mm max.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/95.jpg
Thanks for the 170a ebay link Phil, I'm biting the bullet and maxing the M/C now ;-)


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[PeeBee]

Some good news, just picked up Rossco's old alt and I'm 99.99% hopeful after measuring it will fit, bolt out, bolt in :-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/93.jpgHole measurements spacings are identical http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/94.jpg The only difference looks like the GQTD42 alt vac pump protudes a further 15mm max.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/95.jpg
Thanks for the 170a ebay link Phil, I'm biting the bullet and maxing the M/C now ;-)


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Excellent.

[MB]

Hmmmmmmm... Says the item has ended 'unsold' and the seller only has 2 x second hand cars in their 'other' items :-( Maybe a 170a GQTD42 alt was too good to be true! Sent seller a message, fingers crossed for a response some day.

[gubigfish]

Have you tried patrolapart MB thats where I got my replacement alternator for me ute, granted I'm only running a 4.2Ti

[MB]

Sure have mate :-) It was 'Shorty' on the counter that said the 125a had ceased production and highest available now was something like 110a I think. My truck needs double that in theory!

[MB]

Just found another link on the Delco Remy 38SI 'new release' (a Borg Warner Company) has several videos within the link, super impressive alternators! http://delco.remy.bitwisesolutions.com/Alternators/Find-by-Model-Family/38SI

[PeeBee]

Hmmmmmmm... Says the item has ended 'unsold' and the seller only has 2 x second hand cars in their 'other' items :-( Maybe a 170a GQTD42 alt was too good to be true! Sent seller a message, fingers crossed for a response some day.

Mark, the item has ended because the auction period expired. He has relisted the alternator, have another look.

[MB]

Ok great, so it is, thanks Phil! Quite brief 'Item description' says 'guaranteed' so I guess if it doesn't pull a true 170a should be returnable even though the advert says 'no returns'? I'm not too savy on electrics mate, do you reckon it's even possible to squeeze 170a out of an alt that size mate?

[PeeBee]

Ok great, so it is, thanks Phil! Quite brief 'Item description' says 'guaranteed' so I guess if it doesn't pull a true 170a should be returnable even though the advert says 'no returns'? I'm not too savy on electrics mate, do you reckon it's even possible to squeeze 170a out of an alt that size mate?

You need to send the guy a question on the 'duty cycle rating' as this is important if you are after a power source to satisfy your demand. Your demand in all likelihood is going to typically be topping up of the battery after starting on a daily basis. Any alternator will handle that. Your 36a draw for the fans is probably getting up close to what the manufacturer would be happy with on a constant basis for a 90a unit also.

Your focus is on the extreme end of the scale where you have sustained draw at high current. So, I have no doubt this alternator could supply 170a but the question is for how long? If you are sitting on the side of a hill and have to winch for 45 minutes with breaks in between, you might find this is adequate. It will get hot, and its performance will taper off to a degree. The next thing you then need to consider is the battery you are using and if it can take the sustained draw down and then boost charge over an extended period - it will also get hot. Will your battery isolation system handle 170a also, as this could be another issue. I have for this reason got the 200a unit hooked up directly to the 1200cca/200A/h battery without intermediate control. The smaller 110a unit goes int the CTEK controllers and the batteries get up to an 80a boost charge and then a 20a staged charge.

The advert is pitched at high amp users such as in comp trucks, but maybe see if you can find out what the comp truck guys do, especially the winch challenges - this is perhaps a more relevant starting point, especially with the outlay, and you want to be happy with the result. I can't find where I bought my 200a unit unfortunately but it was from the USA.

Sorry, as usual a bit long winded, but you need to consider the system as well. Is there a comp truck guy within the forum who can advise on what they have used to set up for this duty?

[Winnie]

Comp truck guys all run 24V systems, so theoretically half the current draw but realistically are winching for only about 30 second at a time. I couldn't see you winching for more than a few minutes at a time either Mark and with short breaks in between as well. Can't think of a time I have winched for more than 10 minutes at a time, with breaks to re run the winch rope.
Their lifespan on their batteries is quite short though and might have to replace them every few race meets.
Keep in mind these guys are running at least 2x 6hp motors at 24V, electric thermo fans etc... as well.

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[nissannewby]

There are differing vac pumps for those alternators. There are ones available that are the same length as the one you have. I can still get 125a alternators so maybe its just patrolaparts supplier.

As for higher current alternators you could look at a 24v item which could produce 200A. Hook your batteries up in series so the alternator can supply the charge to the batteries. Then only come off one of the batteries so the rest of the car can run off 12v. There is a little more to this sort of setup but it opens up a lot more options for alternator output options.

[MB]

Thankyou gents for your input, truly awesome and seriously appreciated:-)!! Darren MudRunnerTD had kindly also mentioned 24V systems some years back when this adventure started and I didn't quite absorb his knowledge given then but making more sense now for sure. Cheers to all, learning is gooda for me :-)

[MudRunnerTD]

Hi Mark,

I had a read back trying to figure out if the dual Alternator was a Chev thing or not? trying to figure your need. It appears your just looking for it for supporting the winch is that right? as the Chev Alternator is supplying enough for your engine?

This is a No Brainer, especially as you have a tray back. I would be 24v-ing the hell out of that! You have plenty of room to store 2 batteries under the rear tray for your 24v setup, your committed to a second alternator so 24v all the way. Your fridge will take 24v as will your LED Light bars if you want it.

Your Winch will just love it. its a whole other level. I can't agree with Winnie about battery life though to be honest, a good 24v system will last as long as any 12v system and there should be Zero detriment to the storage batteries in this scenario. Im not aware of any Race cars that are swapping out their batteries after a couple of events unless they have cooked them or the Rich guys at the pointy end just because new is good. Buy a pair of New batteries for your 24v system though and make sure they are the same. make sure you fit an isolation switch with at least 600 continuous Amp rating and you should mount that in the cab within reach of the driver. I have a mate that runs cheapish Bond batteries under his tray running 24v and has competed in 2 Outback and 4 Cliffhangers at least. Plus heaps of club stuff in between.

Note also your Winch Motor Ishka is not like a normal 12v motor and has the capacity to take ALOT of power unlike the Warn motors. They have a completely different winding system and are designed for a static industrial application. Given this they don't tend to burn out the windings like a 6hp Warn. Tough. The Ishka motor was an accident. a guy a few years ago had a Pallet of them sitting around and he couldn't move them. He noticed that they had the same spline as the Warn 6hp so listed them for $130 each on a Comp page with no promises "Good for spares. Guys bought 3 or 4 each. I was strapped and did not buy any damn it!! Well bugger me if they are not Bloody Awesome and are rated far better than a Warn and hold their own in the Comp Trucks. Unfortunately when the Dump supply was gone the restock was way more expensive but still cheaper than Warn. Will be my next motor for sure.

Only advice i can give for running 24v through your 12v motors is Avoid Reverse Winching (Winch Out) as this will kill the motors quickly, especially the Warn. You have an Air Freespool for that reason so happy days.

24v ALL DAY

[MudRunnerTD]

Click on the link below and scroll down to the BlueSea 3001 HD Isolation Switch.


http://www.12volt.com.au/General%20Htmls/webcat2003/batteryswitches.html#hdseries

[PeeBee]

Click on the link below and scroll down to the BlueSea 3001 HD Isolation Switch.


http://www.12volt.com.au/General%20Htmls/webcat2003/batteryswitches.html#hdseries

Darren, I had a Blue Seas isolation switch and it sequentially failed at the studs to wiper face ( meaning the 2 out of 3 cable studs physically cracked and broke the circuit, so no charge path). It didn't do a heap of high current work, maybe an abnormal outcome or fatigue - unsure ? When I do this again I am probably going the path of fuse blocks, rated for the max current supply - what are your thoughts on this for high amp isolation devices?

[MudRunnerTD]

Darren, I had a Blue Seas isolation switch and it sequentially failed at the studs to wiper face ( meaning the 2 out of 3 cable studs physically cracked and broke the circuit, so no charge path). It didn't do a heap of high current work, maybe an abnormal outcome or fatigue - unsure ? When I do this again I am probably going the path of fuse blocks, rated for the max current supply - what are your thoughts on this for high amp isolation devices?

interesting, did you contact Bluesea for warranty? That switch is a minimum requirement for all Competitors vehicles in all forms of winch truck racing in Australia. Must be full rated Isolation within reach of the Driver and Passenger. Most guys run that switch. thats how i found it. This is the switch i have to go into my GQ. it looks like good kit, i can only assume yours suffered fatigue but id be contacting Bluesea for sure!

[PeeBee]

interesting, did you contact Bluesea for warranty? That switch is a minimum requirement for all Competitors vehicles in all forms of winch truck racing in Australia. Must be full rated Isolation within reach of the Driver and Passenger. Most guys run that switch. thats how i found it. This is the switch i have to go into my GQ. it looks like good kit, i can only assume yours suffered fatigue but id be contacting Bluesea for sure!

Switch would have been there for at least 10 yrs so am sure its not a warranty item. I might make a call anyway and see what they could offer or perhaps put the finger on the reason for failure.

[MB]

Hi Mark, I had a read back trying to figure out if the dual Alternator was a Chev thing or not? trying to figure your need. It appears your just looking for it for supporting the winch is that right? as the Chev Alternator is supplying enough for your engine?
Thanks Darren, great info mate and appreciate the link too, Cheers! The Mitsubishi Pajero alternator used on the 6.5NA conversion barely ran the entire car since I installed the twin thermo setup and have always found it drop below 13.2V which disconnected the Redarc link to my aux fridge battery. I've worked this alternator so hard its now nearly dead so just bought the 170a GQ Ebay one to install this weekend to keep rolling. I'll start researching 24V aux alternators as my plan was to always install a 3rd&4th set of Optimas behind the rear Superior tower brace for running my rear winch too. I do like the idea of lights, fridge, gadgets running on 24V too, could open up some shopping at the truck stores :-)

[MudRunnerTD]

Thanks Darren, great info mate and appreciate the link too, Cheers! The Mitsubishi Pajero alternator used on the 6.5NA conversion barely ran the entire car since I installed the twin thermo setup and have always found it drop below 13.2V which disconnected the Redarc link to my aux fridge battery. I've worked this alternator so hard its now nearly dead so just bought the 170a GQ Ebay one to install this weekend to keep rolling. I'll start researching 24V aux alternators as my plan was to always install a 3rd&4th set of Optimas behind the rear Superior tower brace for running my rear winch too. I do like the idea of lights, fridge, gadgets running on 24V too, could open up some shopping at the truck stores :-)

Your Spal Fans will likely run on 24v too mate.

[MB]

They're actually Davies Craig's 12Vers unfortunately Daz, when I had all the dramas years back the SPAL's were the ones I was going to change over to but the boys at Davies Craig came to the party and sorted it all out very well with good replacements FOC :-)

[MudRunnerTD]

They're actually Davies Craig's 12Vers unfortunately Daz, when I had all the dramas years back the SPAL's were the ones I was going to change over to but the boys at Davies Craig came to the party and sorted it all out very well with good replacements FOC :-)

Cool, see if you can retro fit the new GQ one instead of the one you have then you have room for the second 24v Alt

[MB]

For sure mate, have measured it all up off Rossco's old GQ one and should be a straight forward swap over, out with the Pajero, back in with a Nissan :-)

[MB]

Thanks again Phil PeeBee mate! Mrs MB reckons the courier delivered within 24 hours from Paypal transfer. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/150.jpgMuch more confident now it might be a ridgey didge hi-amp as the seller has hand written some advice on the box and again for good measure to not be missed on the receipt:-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/151.jpg


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[PeeBee]

Thanks again Phil PeeBee mate! Mrs MB reckons the courier delivered within 24 hours from Paypal transfer. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/150.jpgMuch more confident now it might be a ridgey didge hi-amp as the seller has hand written some advice on the box and again for good measure to not be missed on the receipt:-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/151.jpg


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Only thing I can see is they should have delivered to MY house! Looks good and when this warranty alternator expires in 2000klm I will be going this way.

[MB]

:-) It's ok mate, I'll be the 6.5NA to GQ4.2 alternator Guinea Pig for us :-)
It's a bit freezing and dark outside to check at the moment but do you know much mate about 'V' belt angles/pitch to match on these pulleys, callipers needed or just eyeball it? Guess in a worst case I could swap pulleys over without hopefully needing to adjust shaft holes maybe too :-( ? http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/154.jpg


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[PeeBee]

It is likely to be a 13A belt, meaning the outer width of the vee belt is 13mm. You can also get 11A belts, which will work but are not as strong and have less friction area on the side of the belt. I doubt it would be a B section as these are circa 16mm wide. The groove at the top of your A section belt pulley should be the same for the old and new. Ony reason to swap the pulley is it there is insufficient adjustment. The wrap angles will be very similar even if the pulley dia is different by a small amount.

[MudRunnerTD]

That alternator looks new MB where from and how much?

[MB]

From Phil's link kindly above mate. New 170a GQ42 Ebay advertised/shared!

[MB]

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/NISSAN-PATROL-GQ-TD42-HIGH-OUTPUT-ALTERNATOR-170AMP-WITH-INTERNAL-FAN-/142279518358?nav=SEARCH

[MB]

It does say 'sold' now but as Phil kindly mentioned above the bloke relists after singulars are sold within an hour or so it seems!

[MB]

Quick update on the 6.5NA 'V-belt 13A' Mitsubishi Pajero alternator swap over to the 170a Nissan GQTD42 kindly Ebay found by PeeBee ! A special thanks to matfew and his after hours elecy skills and time too! Mounts all fit perfectly with only one thin washer needed below to align the pulley square. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/199.jpgThe fun began when we finally realised the new GQTD4.2 oil drain was now hitting the rocker cover. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/200.jpg Turned out to be that the vacuum pump castings and bolts are some say 10 degrees rotationally different. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/201.jpg Thanks to the kind help also of 'Scooter' at 'Pirtek-Wodonga' on our way through home we have customised a 45 degree M16/1.5T ('JIS -Japanese Hydraulic') new drain to clear the rocker cover finally. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/202.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/203.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/204.jpgThe next little challenge became the existing vacuum pump oil feed Banjo bolt would not fit the new M10/1.5T again ('JIS- Japanese Hydraulic') thread. 'Ultimate Fastners' next door kindly gave us a suitable bolt then the lathe and drill press at Pirtek went to work on more customisation. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/205.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/206.jpg Good news is that they do fit with a bit of tweaking and it's only now needing a descent charge wire and fuse to gain its full potential.
Ooh, and a double special thanks to matfew for kindly wiring up my revamped winch tonight whilst waiting too ;-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/05/207.jpg


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[matfew]

[emoji12] no problem at all mate. Hopefully it helps. Wish isn't finished yet lol....

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[Rossco]

Looks awesome Markie, can't wait to see this winch in action . .

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[PeeBee]

So you made up two of everything required for modification Mark, 'ol mate????

[nissannewby]

Was the original drain banjo a different thread?

[matfew]

The patero alt had some imperial threads and gq alt is metric. The vacuum fit straight on oil supply was the m10 and the drain was m16. Not sure on sizing of the pajero one.

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[nissannewby]

Very strange for a pajero (japanese) to be imperial. Unless the conversion company has done some customising.

[PeeBee]

Noticed the new alternator has 4 mount bolts as well, the mitsu only has 3 so you can swivel the pot orientation 120 deg without issue, but the 4th snookers you, plus the 10 deg thing is a bugger. Anyway, its done, charging ok?

[MB]

Yep, as Matfew mentioned vac banjo up high fitted no probs, drain banjo on the Nissan was smaller and the new rotation unfortunately wouldn't of allowed it even it was same. The oil feed banjo as you say Matt was very strange for Jap to Jap so maybe was tapped before possibly? Both vac pumps were 3 bolt mounts Phil, it might be the vac case screws seen in the picture. It's running great so far and back up to 14.5/.6 on the multi and Matfew is kindly helping install the additional chunky charge wire with 150amp fuse next week ready for some winching. Matfew has a clamp meter thingo for amp testing so we'll load her up with everything that has a switch and see how it goes.

[PeeBee]

Yep, as Matfew mentioned vac banjo up high fitted no probs, drain banjo on the Nissan was smaller and the new rotation unfortunately wouldn't of allowed it even it was same. The oil feed banjo as you say Matt was very strange for Jap to Jap so maybe was tapped before possibly? Both vac pumps were 3 bolt mounts Phil, it might be the vac case screws seen in the picture. It's running great so far and back up to 14.5/.6 on the multi and Matfew is kindly helping install the additional chunky charge wire with 150amp fuse next week ready for some winching. Matfew has a clamp meter thingo for amp testing so we'll load her up with everything that has a switch and see how it goes.

Alternator rated at 170a, winch will draw more than that, where is the 150a fuse going? Assuming its all running at 12V supply, no doubt less with 24V if you are considering this dual system?

[MB]

It's going on the 'secondary' charge wire we are adding soon Phil. The existing wire is staying in place also. 'Bursons' only had the 150a fuse in stock and the next size up to order was 175a so went the safest option for now. I just wanna get up in the mountains ASAP, can't wait any longer :-)

[PeeBee]

Finished the PTO Hydraulic Pump installation, finally, but have a weeping fitting and its in a nightmare location, so trying to convince myself I need some more pain to fix it. Line speed is variable depending on engine speed. With the engine ticking over at 500rpm, I get about 1.5m/min, and at the other end at 1400rpm I am seeing around 6m/min, on low speed (approx 4 times this on high speed but capacity is down to around 4000lbs, so more for line retrieval on high)which is similar to the 15000lb warn electric on the rear. Pressure set at 2500psi, but will assess if this is adequate or not. Pump is rated to 3000psi and winch motor 4000psi. Runs quiet as a mouse and smooth. System holds about 2.5L, and I am looking to increase that over time with a second reservoir, bit hard to find an adequate spot of it at the moment. One final boot to install in the cabin that will seal the floor off.

Next job, relocate the ARB difflock compressor and install the Endless Air Pump.

[PeeBee]

Leak fixed, 2 hrs to nip a nut up a tiny amount, so frustrating. Anyway, all good and ready to use without losing a truckload of fluid.

[MB]

Quick recent trip footage up the mountains. Love my 6.5NA for its awesome compression downhill and even better crank inertia uphill :-) https://youtu.be/vk1rVg6tbv4 Found some quick humility soon after that my 150psi chassis air tank and lockers are poorly plumbed and flooding solenoids with moisture/icing up totally/scary disabled:-( https://youtu.be/TKNqMLD5qOM Good news to share for the recently installed 170amp GQTD alternator though! Powered the newly revamped Warn HM Iskra/Mahle motor without a sweat, just kept hauling up that slippery ledge with lockers gone, my saviour :-) https://youtu.be/AfAEzIx_0f0


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[PeeBee]

Added a 2.5L oil reservoir to the hydraulic system today, all straight forward, just more time on the ground doing it. Now for the original hyd pump removal and installation of endless air compressor - when does it end???

[the evil twin]

ROFL... it never ends... you know that :-)

Just wormed my way out from underneath mine after shuffling around with a rag spanner and inspection light checking everything is as it should be.
Not a lot of room with the extra size of the 4L85 tranny in there and the transfer case having had to be moved back so pays to keep an eye no lines/hoses/looms etc have moved or are rubbing.
Had to replace a couple of cable ties here and there but otherwise all tickety boo.

I run my endless air of the A/C drive pulley.
The pulley is wide enough to allow for the Serpy belt and a narrow second belt for the Air.

[PeeBee]

ROFL... it never ends... you know that :-)

Just wormed my way out from underneath mine after shuffling around with a rag spanner and inspection light checking everything is as it should be.
Not a lot of room with the extra size of the 4L85 tranny in there and the transfer case having had to be moved back so pays to keep an eye no lines/hoses/looms etc have moved or are rubbing.
Had to replace a couple of cable ties here and there but otherwise all tickety boo.

I run my endless air of the A/C drive pulley.
The pulley is wide enough to allow for the Serpy belt and a narrow second belt for the Air.

Thanks for the heads up. I have two choices, either take the original hyd pump out and use the additional 'A' section drive pulley off the PS pump I have configured, or move the ARB diff Lock compressor to where the Hyd pump is, then slot the endless air under the second alternator and use a belt drive off the alternator. Either one is HOURS OF FUN for sure.

I know what you mean about opportunity for rubbing as everything on this installation is so close fitting. The exhaust is really rigid, and runs really close to some metal tubes on the chassis, maybe 2mm clearance, so these will be watched for sure. I don't know how this will last over time with such little give in it, especially with body/chassis movement and corrugations - just have to wait and see.

[PeeBee]

So you made up two of everything required for modification Mark, 'ol mate????

Mark, I am not happy with the warranty Mitsu alternator, seems to be voltage limited to circa 13.8V or thereabouts - totally over this. Can you recall exactly the parts you bought to do the minor mods or is the description about as close as you can remember? As always i am looking fora reason to pour more money down the throat of this beast!

[MB]

Hey Phil mate, it's parked up in the shed at the moment whilst I get stuck into my air line issues. You're welcome to come and grab the alternator with custom fittings if you want to take with you to Pirtek out your way for matching.

[PeeBee]

Hey Phil mate, it's parked up in the shed at the moment whilst I get stuck into my air line issues. You're welcome to come and grab the alternator with custom fittings if you want to take with you to Pirtek out your way for matching.

Thanks mark, will get the unit fist. Just heading out with my wife to go TV stand furniture shopping - absolutely thrilled beyond belief.