Rust under the carpet. Best methods and products to stop it in its tracks?

[mudski]

So I had to remove half the interior on the drivers side as I had an issue with a few Huntsmans residing in my car. Upon pulling the carpet up on the rhs there is a channel along the side where all the wiring is (following under the scuff plate). I found the nest but also found quite a lot of rust and its coming off in big flakes.
So before I remove the carpet and everything else whats the best way to clean up this mess?
Vac it all up first. Hit the rusted area with a wire wheel of some sort? Then treat it with what? Paint over it after the treatment?

Cheers.

[Winnie]

I'd do what you say then go crazy with sound deadener

[mudski]

I'd do what you say then go crazy with sound deadener
But what products do I need to use to attack the rust?

[Parksy]

Don't use a wire wheel, they aren't that effective at removing rust. Only polishes the rust and embeds it further into the metal. Sanding or something else abrasive and sanding it back to clean metal is the best way. If you can get your hands on some por15 you will have a very durable protective coating that will work. Finding how the water is getting in from the floor is an important step in making sure it doesn't happen again. I know on my gq the side trim panel fasteners would let water in.

[Sir Roofy]

so i had to remove half the interior on the drivers side as i had an issue with a few huntsmans residing in my car. Upon pulling the carpet up on the rhs there is a channel along the side where all the wiring is (following under the scuff plate). I found the nest but also found quite a lot of rust and its coming off in big flakes.
So before i remove the carpet and everything else whats the best way to clean up this mess?
Vac it all up first. Hit the rusted area with a wire wheel of some sort? Then treat it with what? Paint over it after the treatment?

Cheers.

get rid of the spiders first stop,em from pi55,n in one spot

[mudski]

get rid of the spiders first stop,em from pi55,n in one spot


You never cease to amuse me old mate....If it wasn't for my car playing up on our snow trip, which it still is, I would have love to sit around the camp fire with you.

[mudski]

Don't use a wire wheel, they aren't that effective at removing rust. Only polishes the rust and embeds it further into the metal. Sanding or something else abrasive and sanding it back to clean metal is the best way. If you can get your hands on some por15 you will have a very durable protective coating that will work. Finding how the water is getting in from the floor is an important step in making sure it doesn't happen again. I know on my gq the side trim panel fasteners would let water in.
where the rust is I can't sand it. Down the side of the floor pan towards the kick panel there is a gutter, if you could call it that. Its full of rust in there... Must have been wet in there for years I reckon.

So what is this POR15? And where do I get it?

[Parksy]

If you can take a photo that will help. Is it a channel that runs down the side of the car? With the electrical looms running down it? If you can get your hand in with a sheet of sand paper, that will do worlds better than a wire wheel. As for the por 15, you're better off googling it because there's too much to explain.

[mudski]

Is it a channel that runs down the side of the car? With the electrical looms running down it?
Yes this is where it is....I will do some research on this por15

[NP99]

Also have a look at this mate -

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CAR-PLAN-RUST-IN-PEACE-RUST-REMOVER-400ML-WRP400-/400541250342?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d421e7326&_uhb=1

[alfonso]

penetrol is the go will oxidise the rust converting it . Then spray or paint with epoxy paint to stop moisture .The penetrol acts as a primer also it is great stuff .Just remove all flaking paint with wire brush first. Also if you find where moisture is getting in spray that area with tectyle think that's how you spell it after pain job is completed . The main problem with carpeted cars is not the carpet as this is marine grade and doesn't hold moisture Its the sound deadening underlay which is felt made from cotton and wool remnants this does hold moisture so best to remove from the section that has rust until fully fixed . vinyl floors have same problem with ulay. The trick with rust is to stop any air from being able to access metal after treatment. within 24 hours of cleaning is best so if you do it do it quickly and don't skimp on the paint any pin holes will create more rust also paint at least 100mm past last rust spot which will probably mean taking your seat out . when replacing any bolts or screws after treatment spray hole and bolt or screw with more tectyle . This leaves a horrible sticky mess but it works . Do not use any of the crappy off the shelf easy to use products they are useless all of them get a marine paint store to make you up a can of epoxy spray or buy a 1 litre tin and brush it on, jotun is a good product. Apply three coats of paint at about 1 hour intervals when paint is very tacky to touch this will ensure coats of paint migrate into each other creating one very thick coat and not three thin coats . If you let paint dry between coats you would have to sand so next coat had something to grab onto .If possible it would be best to do entire floor like this not just the patch. If you don't do it properly rust will be back within a couple of weeks. Do not paint with sound deadener it is porous and will cause more problems.

[Parksy]

Plus 1 with the penetrol. I removed the seats and carpet and penetrolled the entire floor section. I just lathered the stuff on. Was dry within 24 hours.

[timeslayer]

wire brush or sand the rust away then use rust converter. its an acid that eats the rust and leaves good metal ready to paint.

[mudski]

Thanks guys. So Penetrol or POR 15 is the go. Just have to find someone local with it now. Thanks for the tips...

[Robo]

wire brush or sand the rust away then use rust converter. its an acid that eats the rust and leaves good metal ready to paint.

not really true.
Rust converter reacts with metal oxide only (rust) not the metal or clean paint in the area that hasn't rusted at all.
that's why instructions state to wipe it off all the clean surfaces around rusted area as it hasn't reacted and formed the special layer to seal area off.
It reacts with the oxide only and basically converts that area into an an ( poly ) coated layer that is then inert and sealed.
Then it's ready for further paint treatment.
m2c worth, Well that what I was told by someone in the know.

The guys are correct you have to remove as much as possible and then seal off effected area from the air and moisture, or it will simply return.
hope you have success

Is it a large area?.
Possible to spot sand blast the rust away completely and then repaint area

[threedogs]

Depending how bad rust is I'd try a flap disc on a 4" grinder to get back
to bare metal, paint any areas with rust converter, then apply some rust proof paint.
As for spiders get a bug bomb set it off with all windows closed,

[BigRAWesty]

So how did you go hear??
I've got some small welding jobs inside which need doing so will be doing them then sealing..
Would like to hear some people's thoughts on the different types of insulation, weather POR15, penetrol or the mat style??

But I know what channel you mean. Depending on how bad it is you may need it cut out, but I would take it to a blasters if you can, or hire a small portable sand blaster as that channel would be a PITA to remove rust.. It was a pain to remove the dirt and mud in mine.. Lol I grabbed my pressure Cleaner.. Lol

[mudski]

O.k I removed the front seats and cut the carpet out today as it was saturated and I CBF'ed removing the centre console. LOL. The rust is not as bad as I first thought after I dried the area out, wire brushed it and vacuumed it. But is still very flakey in some spots. But while its all out I need to find where the water is coming from. I have removed all the floor bungs and will clean them up and silicone them back in.
I think most of the water on the driver side is coming from the floor join where the transmission tunnel meets the front section of the floor. As for the passenger side, its wetter, but not rusted. I reckon most of the water is coming from that large rubber seal where the air con pipes go in and into the evap unit.
I also bought some por 15 and some metal ready which goes onto the rusted area first. Not cheap at just over $90 for 500ml of the por 15 and a small 250ml pump spray pack of the metal ready.

@ Kallen. I have a brochure on the por 15 product range and they advise to use the metal ready directly onto the rusted area first, once that is done you apply the por 15. It looks impressive going by their catalog. The guy who I got it from says he sells heaps of this stuff for people doing the exact same thing, rust removal and prevention. So it must be good.

[Parksy]

They have a product called marine clean which is used to clean the area first. An important step in the process as it removes all oils and greases and anything that might stop the metal ready doing it's thing. When using the products, it's very important to let the area dry completely between steps. You must use water after the marine clean to remove the cleaning product and you must use water to neutralise the metal ready. I always use my wife's hair dryer between steps to quicken the process. If water still remains soaked in the metal after applying por 15, it will continue to rust. Has to be bone dry!!

[mudski]

They have a product called marine clean which is used to clean the area first. An important step in the process as it removes all oils and greases and anything that might stop the metal ready doing it's thing. When using the products, it's very important to let the area dry completely between steps. You must use water after the marine clean to remove the cleaning product and you must use water to neutralise the metal ready. I always use my wife's hair dryer between steps to quicken the process. If water still remains soaked in the metal after applying por 15, it will continue to rust. Has to be bone dry!!

Yeah I spoke to the guys about the marine clean and they said that where it is I shouldn't need it. Gonna have a crack at doing it tomorrow. The floor has been soaked for yonks so everything is out and drying overnight.

[threedogs]

you can buy POR15 from the Melb outlet up in Campberfield , just opposite Truck City
Prices I found were a lot cheaper than $90 for 500 ml. I ended up ringing Sydney office for info.
Awesome product great for painting diffs.

[mudski]

you can buy POR15 from the Melb outlet up in Campberfield , just opposite Truck City
Prices I found were a lot cheaper than $90 for 500 ml. I ended up ringing Sydney office for info.
Awesome product great for painting diffs.
Thats where I got it from. Grand Tourer Restorations...Plus it was $90 for the 500ml and a bottle of metal ready. Done it all today. Found where the leaks where coming from on both sides. The join in the bottom floor pan and the firewall. I could nearly fit my fingers through the gap on the passenger side. Lol. Pulled the joins together and sealed it all up, plus the rubber boot for the a/c evap I also smeared it with silicone just to be sure...
Now to find time to order the new carpet and underlay. Underlay Yipaaa!!!

[Wine_maker]

You can clean main rust using the wire brush and then using a phosphoric acid make a coat from rust after that painting floor with UPOL Raptor.

[mudski]

All done. Just have to replace the carpets. ..