3" Lift in GU9 = Traction Control and ABS Issues not experienced in GU8 wit Same Lift

[Brad_GU9]

Hi All My first question to the group please........

Apologies for the long title but after searching previous threads and not really finding any suggestions other than a faulty Brake Fuse? to possibly be the culprit I thought I would ask if anyone can shed some light please on a couple of issues I have with my new GU9.

I have just upgraded to the series 9 from my series 8 and transferred the exact same suspension including coils, shocks, extended sway bar links, adjustable panhard rods, poly air bags, adjustable steering link etc. to the series 9. It is a 3" Lift which gave me no trouble at all in the series 8 for the past 3 years or 80,000klms.

2 Issues I am having now are:

Issue 1 - when cornering even slightly faster than your grandmother would the traction control/VDC system thinks the vehicle is out of control
which it definitely is not and is disconnecting the throttle.

Issue 2 - When braking down hill around corners again the electronics for some reason think I need additional braking and in once instance on the weekend the application of the unexpected additional braking to what felt like only the front right wheel sent the vehicle to the right unexpectedly toward oncoming traffic.

I have discussed the issue with the dealer who says none of the sensors that monitor the VDC or Traction Control are programmable therefore they cannot offer any fix as they claim everything is preset from the factory and cannot be altered or have its sensitivity adjusted etc. I talked to Nissan Customer Care who can't do anything either because the problem only occurred after I modified the suspension.

My mechanic seems to think the issue might be over excited yaw sensor or what he is calling a gravity or G sensor which apparently is located under the rear seats somewhere. I have discussed the problem with a few 4WD heads and seems that locating the gravity sensor and lowering it 3" might help but if when I find it, it is located on the floor this could be difficult.

Given the same suspension proved itself in the series 8 there is something new or different in the series 9 that is causing these problems.

Has anyone else had these issues and if so I would absolutely love to know how you fixed them because whilst I am aware of the vehicles behavioural issues and can anticipate what it's going to do I am concerned that right now if anyone else decided to drive it's actually quite dangerous.

Thanks Brad

[jack]

Hi Brad_GU9

Just want to clear up this is during normal driving, not while in 4WD?
I've had it happen a couple of times when not in 4WD when pushing it on a dirt road and it wasn't really unexpected as I was pushing the limits. When in 4WD I turn it off.

[Brad_GU9]

Yup, normal all day everyday driving on the road in 2WD is when it is occurring.

[jack]

Well there goes my thinking, hope someone else can help out.

[Clarkie]

I experience the same issue and i have 2" lift on 2014 model. Any resemblance of corner speed and the dash lights up and power is cut.
I just accept it.

[bazzaboy]

Same with my 2014 with 2' lift. Can be bloody dangerous if someone is on your tail on a corner. I've had someone nearly nail me in this situation. I was going to mention it on the next service but It now sounds like a waste of time. With all the different makes of vehicles I've owned, I've never experienced any of them want to take no responcibilty for anything, except Nissan. I do like my Y61 and when it comes out of lease I will probably buy it, but it probably will be the one and only Nissan I ever buy.

[Brad_GU9]

Thanks Guys, good to know that even a 2" lift causes the same probs coz one option was to lower it a little but won't waste time on that now. So one other cause of weird ABS issues is the steering wheel position sensor and in my case the wheel is 100% centred so I can rule that one out of being the cause.....

Anyone have any schematic diagrams which show the physical location of the G Sensor and Yaw Sensors... really keen to find the G or Gravity Sensor in particular and try lowering it by the same height as the lift to see if that is the problem.

Thanks
Brad

[Ronin]

Just for a test, can you guys turn off VDC for a short duration ? its the button near the gear stick.

[Brad_GU9]

Hi Ronin, with the VDC system disabled via the button immediately in front of the handbrake the throttle is not disconnected when cornering, vehicle operates as you would expect in the instance of cornering no throttle disconnects occur. I have not tested the additional braking it likes to provide on downhill turns as yet with the VDC system switched off. Cheers Brad

[bazzaboy]

Same with mine. Switch it off ... all good. Mine will kick in even with no throttle arround a sharp corner or even turning hard left or right from a set of lights. Coming back from the High Country recently arround a lot of twisty bends ( tar road ) it was that bad I had to switch it off as it was way to dangerous.

[Brad_GU9]

Ok, so I can rule out the height of the G Sensor located under the front seat as the cause of the problem. Tonight I was able to rig up a temporary bracket down through a large gromet in the floor just below the factory location of the sensor. I tested the following heights from factory without any change to the vehicle behaviour.

-20mm
-50mm
-75mm
-125mm

I think now that this sensor is the one that measures the rate at which the vehicle is actually slowing compared to live braking force calculations and the VDC adds more if necessary.

So, the elusive Gravity sensor which according to the schematic diagram for my VIN is nowhere to be found, it's supposed to be under the rear seats which it is not. Sometimes they are located under the centre console, but nope it's not their either.

My other thought was that the YAW sensor could be a little over active given the increased ride height.

Can anyone help with the location of either the YAW or Gravity sensors please. Next step is to locate both of these and try lowering them by the lifted height.

Thanks
Brad

[shina]

I a have simular problem with my 2013 patrol, after a 2" lift i get both lights coming on up on the dash only when I'm driving down the hwy doing 100. Been told its the yaw senor behind the steering wheel as since the lift the wheel is slightly out of centre. It only happens after about 10-15 min of driving usually in a straightish line. But when you stop and turn the car off and restart it, it resets itself until the next time.

[bazzaboy]

Put mine in for it's 30thou service today. Had the head mechanic drive it to witness the VDC issue. He said that they were aware of it happening on Patrols with 3inch or more lifts but not to any with only 2inch lifts. It played up consistently on nearly every round-about, killing the power and flashing the warning light. He said that they would re-set the VDC settings and re-test it. He also said that if that did not fix it, a known problem part would need to be replaced. I'll re-post the finding after I pick it up later today.

[bazzaboy]

I a have simular problem with my 2013 patrol, after a 2" lift i get both lights coming on up on the dash only when I'm driving down the hwy doing 100. Been told its the yaw senor behind the steering wheel as since the lift the wheel is slightly out of centre. It only happens after about 10-15 min of driving usually in a straightish line. But when you stop and turn the car off and restart it, it resets itself until the next time.

Unlike yours, mine only does it on corners. On thing though .... my 2014 and probably your 2013 does not have an adjustable drag link. This adjustment is needed to correct the steering wheel alignment. I have recently purchased an adjustable one from Superior Engineering to solve this issue.
Bazza.

[Ronin]

yeah thats what I heard that you need to change front steering arm to be able to get alignment straight.

[bazzaboy]

Put mine in for it's 30thou service today. Had the head mechanic drive it to witness the VDC issue. He said that they were aware of it happening on Patrols with 3inch or more lifts but not to any with only 2inch lifts. It played up consistently on nearly every round-about, killing the power and flashing the warning light. He said that they would re-set the VDC settings and re-test it. He also said that if that did not fix it, a known problem part would need to be replaced. I'll re-post the finding after I pick it up later today.

Further to above ...........

Picked up the Patrol yesterday afternoon, after all the "good intentions" made by the mechanic, nothing was done about the VDC. They now say that they are waiting on instruction from Nissan. Unbelievable! After 10 years with Toyotas I never had one issue regarding warranty with them. It seems with Nissan if you wash it you void the warranty. I don't like being f#@ked about. Never again.

[mudski]

I'm not familiar with the ABS etc etc but when you did the lift did you install the extension piece for the brake bias bracket on the rear diff?

[bazzaboy]

I'm not familiar with the ABS etc etc but when you did the lift did you install the extension piece for the brake bias bracket on the rear diff?

Not related to my issue, but I don't think an extension bracket for the brake bias is required for only a 2" lift. ( I could be wrong )

Bazza

[shina]

I'm not familiar with the ABS etc etc but when you did the lift did you install the extension piece for the brake bias bracket on the rear diff?

I could be wrong but i don't think the newer models have the brake bias on the rear diff....i couldn't see it on mine, unless its tucked up out off the way.

[mudski]

Not related to my issue, but I don't think an extension bracket for the brake bias is required for only a 2" lift. ( I could be wrong )

Bazza
The bracket needs to be moved upward on the rear diff for any lift, so thats its in the same position as it would with no lift. Otherwise the bias valve won't be working as it should.


I could be wrong but i don't think the newer models have the brake bias on the rear diff....i couldn't see it on mine, unless its tucked up out off the way.

Pretty sure they would have. But I haven't looked under one tbh.

[Brad_GU9]

Hi Guys, Neither GU8 or GU9 have/had a brake proportioning valve located above the rear diff so nothing to relocate. :)

Anyone able to point me in the direction of the YAW sensor please, super keen to find the little bugger. Thanks Brad

[Ronin]

Hi Guys, Neither GU8 or GU9 have/had a brake proportioning valve located above the rear diff so nothing to relocate. :)

Anyone able to point me in the direction of the YAW sensor please, super keen to find the little bugger. Thanks Brad

could that YAW sensor = steering angle sensor ?

there is more info here http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/VSC-TrainingManual-9.pdf

EDIT: have a look at this post by Nisshead.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?32140-ABS-VDC-warning-lights-when-hard-braking&p=593109&viewfull=1#post593109

Ok, they reckon this issue is due to my steering wheel not sitting straight. Apparently the 2012 onwards vehicles with VDS have a steering wheel angle sensor which if not aligned 100% will cause issues with VDS....hmmmm
They told me to get a wheel alignment which I did a day before taking it into Nissan.
Looks like a adjustable drag link is in order, which funnily enough the Nissan bloke had no idea what I was talking about

[Brad_GU9]

Thanks Ronin, have had the steering column apart and definately only the steering wheel position sensor in there... The yaw sensor should be a little black box with an almost pendulum type gadgetron in it, it measures sideways movement of the vehicle.

In reference to the post about steering wheel position I can confirm that this is absolutely critical to the system functioning as the physical position of the steering wheel is the basis for how the VDC system operates. It compares actual motion to driver input live and "assists" where necessary.

I have the adjustable steering link on there and my wheel is absolutely 100% true to centre so I can also rule this out as causing the abnormal operation of VDC. Given the G sensor test I did last week, it's not my problem either so it has to be either the Yaw Sensor or the elusive Gravity Sensor if I can find that one too.

Thanks Brad

[Brad_GU9]

So, had a chance to pop into Nissan on Friday and asked the parts guy to look up the location of the gravity sensor, turns out it is the one under the passenger front seat I had been mucking around with the other day.

When I asked him to tell me where the yaw sensor is, nothing is listed. It does not have one. Nor does it have a Decel Sensor so it's looking more like the gravity sensor is a bit of an all rounder providing the VDC system with most of the info it needs in conjunction with the steering wheel position sensor and the individual wheel speeds.

Given that I have already tried re-positioning the physical height of this sensor without success I am know wondering if the angle of the sensor is more the issue.

Next step is to head to dealership to measure a factory vehicle height from chassis to ground and compare to how mine is sitting. Then make some little wedges to alter the angle of my sensor by the difference to see if that helps. More soon. Cheers Brad

[Ronin]

So where exactly is this gravity sensor ? I will have a look as well.

[MudRunnerTD]

Buy a GQ :p

[Brad_GU9]

Gravity Sensor is located under the passenger front seat. If you separate the overlap in the carpet you will see it mounted on a little subframe to the floor pan. If you slide the seat all the way forward and tilt it forward as well you can get a reasonable look at it from the back seat area but for me I just whipped the front seat out. Just remember though if you have side airbags not to turn ignition on without the airbag connected or it will log a fault with the airbag system.

Mudrunner - somedays I think I should have. :biggrin: this technology is an ongoing issue in all modern 4WD's and unfortunately it's something we all have to deal with unless we want to continue driving the older more simpler rigs. My young bloke just bought a RN106 Diesel Hilux ( notice I didn't mention that "T" word on here LOL ) and we've been doing a bit of work on it and man I love the simplicity of it all, off road everything, like your GQ is simple and it all works exceptionally well. There is no ABS, no high tech sensors, no traction control or VDC and it all works. Personally I wish all real 4wd manufacturers would stop building 4WD's to handle like cars cos for what we do with them we don't want or need all that electronic crap. I survived almost 400,000ks in my first GU without VDC. It's almost like they are building vehicles these days for people who can't drive. For me, I am keen to get to the bottom of this one and my suspension supplier may end up assisting with this too cos unless there are work arounds for the issues that arise post mods, the reality is that the aftermarket 4x4 industry in this country will be affected greatly as more and more new 4WD's are sold that can not be modified. I mean if you read the manual that came with my GU9 it even tells me I can't change the bloody tyres because of the VDC system. Cheers Brad

[Nexus]

Let us know how you get on.
Just picked up a GU9, and I want to do a 2" lift on it down the line.
Be interested to know if its a rare issue, or fairly universal.

Was thinking of going the boring ARB OME 2" lift, or maybe the new BP-51s when they develop the kit. Don't want to paint myself into a corner though...

[farqman]

I have a 2013 model ST.
2" OME lift. HD in the front for bar and winch, 200kg constants for drawers, rear bar, cargo barrier and water tank.

I have zero issues. The only time I have VDC kicking in is usually when it's been raining and I take a corner too quick.

Also when off road I leave the VDC alone. Don't have any issues there either. Low range the VDC turns off, but ABLS still works.

[Rumcajs]

Hi Guys, Neither GU8 or GU9 have/had a brake proportioning valve located above the rear diff so nothing to relocate. :) ....

That's because ABS system makes such valve redundant.....


The issue in here is that GU9 has what a law has been calling for: ESP/ESC in another words stability control enhanced package part of TSC and ABS. This shyte my friends started when State of Victoria has unilateraly declared ESP compulsory on all new cars onwards from certain date (2011) with light commercials been given extension until 2013. Welcome to the nanny state!

I'm not sure how it is implemented in Patrols but similar systems in heavy vehicles have ability/option to re-calibrate yaw rate sensor/s and various parts of the ESP subsystem e.g. steering wheel position sensor.

So take it back/ask to Nissan to recalibrate the sensor for new suspesion height maybe it can be done.

There is always an option to wire a switch into to system to power the whole ABS/ESP/VDC (whatever they call that shyte these days) down by interrupting the power supplies to those control units. I'd personally make a "fake" diff lock/4WD Lo switch OFF scenario so these systems can be turned off at will irrespective if diff lock or low range is used.

Cheers